T. Belman. I just returned from the Begin Center where the evening was devoted to Israel Victory lead by Daniel Pipes. This means victory before negotiations. The corollery is negotiations last. During the program there was a sentance put forward namely “Rethinking the path to peace.” This really bothered me. We should not be seeking peace. We should be seeking to extend our sovereignty over all the land west of the Jordan river with the least number of Arabs in it. That should be our goal.
Gideon Saar spoke. He was good. Martin Sherman and Motti Kedar were also present. Yossi Kuperwasser is very friendly to me due to the fact that he follows Israpundit. Tonight he commented that I was the leading voice in calling for a Trump victory. He was reading Israpundit throughout the campaign. We are going to get together to talk. I feel honoured.
http://www.danielpipes.org/18411/israel-victory-gains-strength
TEL AVIV – What do Israelis think of the idea of Israel winning and the Palestinians losing?
It’s a radical idea, very different from the 50-year-and-counting win-win assumption of “land for peace” that has transfixed governments and monopolized their attention. That old idea holds that putting Palestinians and Israelis in a room together will prompt them to settle their differences. On the cusp of the Oslo Accords’ 25thanniversary, we know precisely how well that worked out: Israelis gave real land, Palestinians rewarded them with false promises of peace.
According to a poll commissioned by the Middle East Forum and carried out by Rafi Smith of Smith Consulting, only 33 percent of Jewish Israelis (and about half that number among those who voted for the current government) still believe in land-for-peace and about the same small number still believe in Oslo. So, the old ways not only failed but are deeply unpopular. What takes their place?
One alternative is the Middle East Forum’s Israel Victory initiative, and it polls well. When asked, “Do you agree or disagree with the proposition that “it will only be possible to reach a peace agreement with the Palestinians when they recognize they have lost their war against Israel?” Fifty-eight percent agreed. This has the makings of a revolution.
Drilling down deeper, an identical 58 percent also agree that “despite Israel’s many victories over the Palestinians, most Palestinians continue to think they can eliminate the Jewish state of Israel.” Fully 65 percent agree that “None of the military conflicts to date with the Palestinians have produced an Israeli victory or a decisive result, and therefore the Israeli-Palestinian conflict perseveres.” An even larger number, 70 percent, hold that “is it necessary for the Palestinian Authority to recognize Israel as the Jewish state before Israel agrees to continue negotiations with it.”
And 77 percent are ready, the next time Hamas attacks from Gaza or Hezbollah from Lebanon, to “Let the IDF win,” meaning they want Israeli military operations to continue until the other side recognizes it has lost. (That is very much not current Israel Defense Forces policy, which is to halt military operations as soon as the other side agrees to a ceasefire.)
After a quarter-century of lopsided negotiations in which the Israelis gave up tangible benefits (“land”) in return for false promises (“peace”), these poll numbers confirm a hunger in Israel for truth and courage. Roughly two-thirds of the population has concluded that the conflict can only be ended by abandoning failed negotiations and instead showing the Palestinians that their case is hopeless.
But Israeli leaders are shy to assert this proposition because every American president from Carter to Obama has discouraged them from taking bold steps, insisting on the discredited but pleasantly neutral-sounding land-for-peace formulation. Enter Donald Trump. The Middle East Forum poll asked about him and 59 percent of Smith’s Jewish Israeli sample calls him “certainly the most pro-Israel U.S. president to date.”
As readers may be aware, I have my doubts about this judgment, seeing Trump as driven by an anti-Tehran project of which Israel is but a small part. But Israel Victory offers the president an unequaled opportunity to prove his Zionist credibility; if he lets Israel achieve the victory that both it and the Palestinians need to move forward, leaving a tedious and harmful conflict behind, he will have made a huge and constructive change for which all sides eventually will profusely thank him.
Mr. Pipes (DanielPipes.org,@DanielPipes) is president of the Middle East Forum. © 2018 by Daniel Pipes. All rights reserved.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
I did not catch that you are correct. I do not agree with that concept.
@ Bear Klein:
from the article you cited. I presume your eye skipped over that, sneakily sandwiched in the middle as it is.
https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Oslo-is-obsolete-Time-for-a-victory-mindset-561808
@ Sebastien Zorn:
Yossi Beilin has done massive damage to Israel and still not has learned. There are many leftists in Israel who learned that Oslo was a massive mistake.
@ robin@longhornproject.org:
Couldn’t find a relevant clip relating to problems in cow housing (cowsing) so this will have to do. I’m sure similar problems would arise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQx9DLP_BEU
@ robin@longhornproject.org:
Surely, the state can find you a subsidized or income-adjusted fire-proof and affordable apartment with room enough for both you and your pet cattle. Have you contacted tenant advocacy groups?
@ Bear Klein:
And I simply cannot believe that Yossi Beilin still has the utter chutzpah to crawl out of the woodwork writing articles giving advice, now. The same advice! Oy.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
Oslo was a monster size mistake. Things were not perfect before Oslo but this resurrected the idea with the local Arabs that Israel was soft and could be beaten. Israel was giving land away and allowed the PLO leaders to come back from Tunis. This made the PLO legit and not just a terror group.
They were on the floor in this long war and we let them off of the floor. So we need to squash them again ruthlessly and put them back on the floor squashing all hope ever of Pal State west of the Jordan River.
Finding ways to reduce the amount of Arabs west of the Jordan River.
Doesn’t make any sense. You can only reach peace with another state. Our goal is for them just to be Arab individuals not a collective entity of any kind, and, moreover, as far away as possible, for the most part. Germany and Japan didn’t just lose because they acknowledged losing. They were conquered. Japan signed the defeat rather than go through the protracted land battle through Japan but not Germany. The signing of surrender was a formality. They really lost. They didn’t just believe they lost. They have to be under martial law in eretz Israel in preparation for ejection (through compensated emigration or whatever) and their organizations must be destroyed world-wide.
Israel didn’t lose any wars. The objectives were obtained. What needs to be done to decisively defeat the pals is to widen the objective to reconquest. Then it becomes a question of whether now is the right time to implement that fully. Israel is either fighting on or at readiness on multiple fronts.
But, cutting aid is a good first step, not because they will stop funding terror, they won’t, but as a first step in a declaration of total war.
@ bondmanp:
If one has the correct PM he will appoint along with the Def Min. the correct Chief of Staff. If they have the wrong one they fire him. They have the power collectively in the Security Cabinet.
All of this is wonderful, but purely academic, as long as the IDF leadership continues to be scared of victory. Worst of all is the insubordination of the IDF to the elected leaders of the nation. While Trump might not restrain Israel from defeating its enemies, how can that be accomplished when the IDF Generals will, as in the past, simply refuse to issue the orders dictated by the Prime Minister? There is a reason the POTUS is called The Commander in Chief. Sadly, the P.M. of Israel does not enjoy a similar title.
@ Bear Klein:
What I meant was “Why not do exactly as you said?”, Bear. I am in total agreement with you.
@ Buzz of the Orient:
Are you objecting to something I wrote? If yes, what is it I do not understand?
@ Bear Klein:
Why not? How many more decades of the “same old same old” are necessary for Israelis to finally be able to rely on a consistency of living peaceful lives? If drastic solutions are not applied now while there is a pro-Israel POTUS, what will be the chance of a solution when there is not?
As long as Israel agrees to cease operations whenever they are asked to, they will never win another battle or war. If a cease-fire is requested due to Hudna, you can be sure that the activity will pick up again as soon as they are ready. That’s no way to win anything, not even a coconut.
Victory is the correct concept. In order to achieve actual victory one must destroy PA/PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc and and supporting terrorists.
1. Apply Israeli Civil Law to all Jewish Towns. State that Israel reserves the right to apply Israeli Civil Law to anywhere else in Judea/Samaria.
2. Build in all of Judea and.Samaria. Focus on E1, the Jordan Valley, Gush Etzion to start.
3. After destroying the terrorist groups. Take over and administer the Arab PA Cities and surrounding villages. Any villages or cities that turn violence will be closed off and workers will not be allowed to exit to work in Israel.
4. Form an NGO to buy Palestinian Properties in Jerusalem and elsewhere in Judea/Samaria starting with Area C in villages next to Jewish Towns. Resell these properties to Jews and recycle the money to buy more Arab owned properties.
5. Form a different NGO to help Arabs quickly move to other countries. Provide financial incentives to help them go. Make sure they receive their funds when it is confirmed they are leaving.
6. Residency for Arabs in new areas where Israeli Civil Law is applied shall only be possible after a vetting process which determines they are not a security risk.
They will need to demonstrate loyalty to the Jewish Democratic State of Israel.
This will require learning Hebrew; your children will be required to provide civil national service at age 18 to 20.
Arab residents will be required to inform on anyone planning terrorist acts including family members. This will be a condition of residency!
ISRAEL is happy to win battles, not wars. The war winner writes the other sides surrender document. ISRAEL allows everyone else to write agreements which ISRAEL abide by while the other side takes advantage of ISRAEL’S weakness.
Nutunyahoo request u s ok before breaking wind, then waits for their applause. Example u s oks ISRAEL keeping b d s supporter from entering country, that makes the judges rulling kosher.
Sorry u s it’s none of your beeswax.
SHALOM, I AM SO DEPRESSED I AM NO LONGER EATING.
I AM TRYING TO HELP PREVENT FOREST FIRES IN ISRAEL. BUT IT IS TOO LATE. THE ARABS ARE STARTING WITH ARSON ATTACK AGAIN. ARE WE GOING TO WAIT TO AFTER THE FOREST FIRES TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?
THE JNF IS PLANTING TREES WITH DRIP IRRIGATION AND NOT REPAIRING THE SOILS IN BETWEEN THEM ALLOWING THE SHRUBS TO CONTINUE GROWING AND CREATING DRY FORESTS THAT ARE PERFECT FOR STARTING MAJOR FOREST FIRES.
THE ONLY WAY TO PREVENT FOREST FIRES IS WITH HOLISTIC GRAZING. I SENT YOU INFORMATION HOW TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM AND MANY OTHER PROBLEMS IN ISRAEL.
IT IS REAL SAD AND EVEN DEPRESSING ONLY 3 ARE HELPING PREVENT THIS AGAIN.
BLESS ISRAEL WITH THE ISRAEL LONGHORN PROJECT AND HELP.
THIS IS MAKING THING WORSE….
BURBANK HEIGHTS AND ORCHARDS APARTMENTS IN SEBASTOPOL CALIF., IS ANTI-ZIONIST, ANTI-ISRAEL, ANTI-SEMITIC AND RACIST OR ANTI-FREE SPEECH. THEY WANT TO EVICT ME BECAUSE I AM JEWISH AND SUPPORT ISRAEL. I HAVE LESS THEN 10 DAYS. I NEED YOUR HELP. IT IS VERY SCARY. THIS MAY DESTROY THE PROJECT. PLEASE SHARE. CALL ROBIN 650-631-9270
RESPECTFULLY YOURS,
ROBIN ROSENBLATT, M.SC. ANIMAL SCIENCE, FORMER IDF AND PAST ANTI-TERRORIST AGENT
7777 BODEGA AVE. S-107
SEBASTOPOL, CA 95472
THE ISRAEL LONGHORN PROJECT
NONPROFIT 501(C) 3 #74-3177354
ROBIN@LONGHORNPROJECT.ORG
http://LONGHORNPROJECT.ORG