T. Belman. Don’t think for a minute, that Israeli demands are limited to security and minimal refugees. That’s just for starters. Israel rejects ’67 lines as borders and a division of Jerusalem. Netanyahu may be ready to cave but the government will fall before that happens.
Ross says that Trump couldn’t undo such a resolution. I think otherwise. The GOP platform which Trump supports says “We oppose any measures intended to impose an agreement or to dictate borders or other terms, and call for the immediate termination of all US funding of any entity that attempts to do so.” This means that a Trump administration would cut off funding for the UN.
Outgoing president would want to create standards his successor cannot undo, Dennis Ross says at Palo Alto confab on future of Zionism sponsored by The Times of Israel
PALO ALTO, California — A looming Donald Trump presidency would make it more likely for lame-duck US President Barack Obama to support a United Nations Security Council resolution laying down the basic parameters for the creation of Palestinian state, a former top US official said Sunday.
“I suspect that if Trump wins, the president would be more inclined to go for a Security Council resolution to try to do something that binds, creates standards for the future that the next president couldn’t undo,” Dennis Ross said at a conference on the future of Zionism and the US-Israel relationship. “If Clinton wins, I suspect he [Obama] would be more sensitive to her concerns as to whether this helps or hurt her.”
Ross, who worked on Israeli-Palestinian issues for decades, including a two-year stint as special assistant to Obama and a year as special adviser to Hillary Clinton, said that the current president “would like to do something, leave some kind of legacy.”
Ross was speaking at a panel organized by the second annual Zionism 3.0 Conference, sponsored by The Times of Israel, at Palo Alto’s Oshman Family Jewish Community Center. The panel was moderated by this reporter.
Jerusalem has for decades relied on a tacit US policy of shielding Israel from resolutions at the UN Security Council, which are often described as one-sided. While Obama’s possible move would not reverse that stance, it would mark a significant departure, Ross noted. What Obama decides to do, though, he said, will likely be heavily influenced by the outcome of the presidential race.
Once the dust has settled following elections on November 8, Obama may use the opportunity as a lame duck to deliver a speech laying out parameters for a peace arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians, or even suggest a Security Council resolution defining those parameters, either to be proposed by the US or another country, Ross speculated.
The president’s speech, were he to make one, would very likely be balanced, Ross added, by equally addressing Palestinian concerns — borders and Jerusalem — and Israeli demands regarding security and the question of Palestinian refugees.
But any Security Council resolution introduced by another country would very likely emphasize the Palestinian demands over Israeli concerns, he said.
“Then the question becomes: if someone else introduces this as a resolution and it waters down the essence of what the president has offered, which would have been balanced between the two, does the US then veto it? That is going to be heavily influenced by the outcome of the election,” Ross said.
“I’m guessing he would be much more inclined to try to be proactive in terms of presenting something that could create standards for the future that the next president couldn’t undo,” he continued.
US President Barack Obama (right) and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu shake hands during a meeting in the Oval Office of the White House in Washington, DC, November 9, 2015. (AFP/Saul Loeb)
US President Barack Obama (right) and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu shake hands during a meeting in the Oval Office of the White House in Washington, DC, November 9, 2015. (AFP/Saul Loeb)
On Wednesday, Obama is scheduled to meet Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in New York at the sidelines of the UN General Assembly.
In a statement Sunday, the White House indicated Israeli-Palestinian peace talks would play a central role in the conversation.
“The meeting also will be an opportunity to discuss the need for genuine advancement of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the face of deeply troubling trends on the ground,” said White House spokesperson Josh Earnest.
Netanyahu’s office, confirming the meeting, did not mention the conflict, but said the PM would thank Obama for a recent $38-billion 10-year defense aid package and would also discuss strategic ties.
Despite working for both Bill and Hillary Clinton during his decades as a diplomat dealing with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Ross was hesitant to say explicitly which presidential candidate would be better for Israel.
“The way you want to judge both candidates is not necessarily based on what they say about Israel, but you want to judge them [based on] what’s their view of the world,” he said. “Are they approaching the Middle East in a way that ensures there won’t be vacuums? If you’re Israel what you want is an America that has a strong position in the Middle East because that makes you stronger.”
Israel and the Arab world do not want the US to withdraw from the region and leave power vacuums, Ross explained.
“If I were to look at the two candidates I’d ask: who is more likely to stay engaged in the region, understanding the dynamics of that region? Who is going to have a relationship with allies that can be dependable, and who’s not?”
‘Criticism of Israel is not a substitute for a healthy relationship’
Other sessions at the day-long conference centered on the nature of ties between American Jews and the Jewish state, particularly the place of criticism of Israel within that bond.
Yehuda Kurtzer, the president of the Shalom Hartman Institute of North America, noted that the relationship between the two communities had become strained.
“Two generations ago, the State of Israel was probably the strongest organizing force for the American Jewish community,” he said. “Today, there is no stronger disorganizing force in Jewish life, no single greater source of tension in the American Jewish communal politics than the State of Israel.”
In his presentation, Kurtzer also argued against the often-used metaphor of Israeli and American Jews as part of a “family.” A secular Jew from California usually feels closer to his neighbor than to an ultra-Orthodox man in Bnei Brak with whom he has fundamental disagreements, even if he really wants to believe that the Bnei Brak man is family, he opined. “I am not sure that the metaphor of the Jewish people as a family has ever been true,” he went on.
Rather, Kurtzer suggested referring to Israeli Jews and American Jews as “mutual descendants of a shared ancestor.”
His father, Dan Kurtzer, a former US ambassador to Israel, argued that while security and economic issues affecting Israelis are clearly the sole responsibility of the government in Jerusalem, issues relating to the state’s Jewish identity are more complicated.
“Some in Israel have sought to determine unilaterally, as a matter of Israeli policies issues that affect Judaism and things Jewish outside of Israel, such as basic identity questions of who is a Jew, questions of personal status, marriage divorce, conversions,” he stated.
“American Jews have said almost uniformly that these are not issues that cannot remain simply within the purview of the Chief Rabbinate of the State of Israel. For sure the Chief Rabbinate has something to say, as do other streams within Israel. But equally, we have something to say, whether we are Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, unaffiliated, whatever our inclinations are. Questions regarding Jewish life have to be shared responsibilities.”
Arguing that criticism and arguments shouldn’t be swept under the rug, Andy David, Jerusalem’s consul general to the Pacific Northwest, said Israel could still be a uniting factor for Jews on both sides of the ocean.
“No matter your color, your affiliation, your sexual orientation or the length of your beard… Israel, we can agree, is a place that can unite us. Sometimes, when you think about how you practice your Judaism, there are different sides of that equation that can hardly agree on anything,” he claimed. “But we can agree that we care for Israel. So Israel is not a force that splits us… that Israel can be the force that unites us.”
Writer Yossi Klein Halevi, a senior fellow at the Jerusalem-based Shalom Hartman Institute, also said that American Jews have the right — and even the obligation — to criticize Israeli government policies, yet added a caveat:
“Criticism is not a substitute for a healthy relationship,” he said, arguing that in certain circles he sees that bashing Israel — for some American Jews — has become the only way of relating to the state.
“What I need from American Jewish critics is a sense of understanding the agonizing complexities of Israel’s dilemmas, not to trivialize our dilemmas,” added Klein Halevi.
@ Ted Belman:
Thank you Ted.
mar55 Said:
Yamit82 got himself tangle up with a female again and is back hiding in the Chisos mts. of Big Bend Texas guarded by mangy coyotes and culebras de cascabelles.
@ mar55:
To find Austin’s comment on The Historical Jesus go jere.
https://www.israpundit.org/archives/63617227
… then Trump will reverse the decision or defund totally the UN. Let them move to Russia, China, Syria, Iran or N-Korea!
As the JP has demonstrated successfully, DT is smart and shrewd. Two good Jewish attributes!
Can we ever rid ourselves of the Kurtzers (Daniel ,whitewasher of the PLO, who along with Dennis Ross, Aaron Miller and Richard Haas were the [James] Baker Boys, and son Yehudah who heads the David Hartman Center, whose doyen is Thomas Friedman’s mentor)? With the Kurtzers, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
@ bernard ross:
It is not me being successful. It is Trump’s hard work and many people like me who are tired of seeing the Obama administration thugs of using the taxpayer’s money as their private piggy bank.
There are lots of people just like you who are also trying with whatever means they have to defeat the nightmare
of this administration.
The more information that becomes available. The evidence is clear that everything is in place just like in a totalitarian government. In secret of course. The only thing saving us is the right to bear arms.
It is beyond me how on earth does he want to give control of the internet to the UN knowing quite well that more than 60%
of their body belongs to the OIC. Why would he give something that was developed in this country to the bunch of
lying thieves at the UN who consistently vote against Israel?
I did not vote for the UN to control part of my life.
Do they have any rights to control our fire arms?
The corrupt body of the UN should try to regulate themselves
and organize their disorganized organization before they try to control anything or anybody in this country.
MIRACLES do happen and I’m hoping for one.
mar55 Said:
yes, he still posts sometimes, he posted recently. He had a spell where he had to post under another user name for technical reasons but now has his old handle back.
mar55 Said:
you appear to be successful as they say his numbers are shooting up.
mar55 Said:
-I do not know the article to which you refer.(is it old or new, does JC refer to Jesus Christ?)
-On the main page there is an archive search tool in the left column at the bottom, if you know the month when it was posted
– or write to ted at: tbelman3@gmail.com
– or post to an austin comment as he may remember the article and its month/year.
thanks for the very generous compliment.
dave koret Said:
Nope, its a common surname
@ bernard ross:
A short visit to the hospital and several doctor’s visits plus getting ready for the Holidays.
I go t a very busy Shul and, I cannot attend to everything they have. Wednesday is the Talmud class and that one I do not miss. Other than that I have been disseminating the truth about TRUMP and company to between 52 and 60 people.
It tales time to do it right by targeting the audience I want to reach.
This is the last train. If we miss it Israel and America will
be doomed forever. The few years I have left of life I want to live them in FREEDOM. The communists scare the daylights out of me. The only way to fight I have is with the computer.
If I was younger I’ll join the IDF.
Sorry for repeating the article. I’ll try to read more.
BTW do you know how can I recue the comments from Austin with the critique of Belman’s article about JC.
Belman is an excellent writer. You are incredible and always remind me of John LeCarre. Austin is a scholar. Impeccable
his research. Yamit is also very good but he is not around
now a days. Where can I find the answer?
@ bernard ross: any relation??? lol
@ mar55:
have you been away?
Please see that the article was posted here on 17sep
https://www.israpundit.org/archives/63617789
@ Bear Klein:
@ bernard ross:
@ ArnoldHarris:
The chickens are coming home to roost.
https://unitedwithisrael.org/new-investigation-launched-into-obama-administration-campaign-to-unseat-netanyahu/
They all should go to where they belong. JAIL!
Bear Klein Said:
If Trump loses this is possible as it will accentuate the trend already underway in the dem party for 8 years. However, if Trump wins everything will go into reverse, it will also sweep across europe and the muslims will become the enemy instead of the Jews. The muslims have made the jew the enemy while the jew defends the muslim. If liberal jews continue to vote to defend the muslim enemy then they will suffer the consequences along with Israel. However, should the US turn on Israel then Israel will likely be given a safe haven with the chinese and russians who will want Israeli military cooperation and weapons.
Isnt ross the one who calls for pressure on Israel?
As for a UNSC resolution….. if Trump wins Israel will have unqualified backing in the UN…. If Israel has Trumps backing it wont care what the UN says or does… they cant send an army becuase their girly boys will be spanked; if they try a blockade they will be blown out of the water; if they try sanctions they will receive a covert war under the seas blowing up all their ships with no attribution. Itsx true that the US cant undo a UNSC resolution after the fact but if Trump wins the wave will sweep across europe against the muslim enemy and turn pro Israel… then the UN itself will pass a new pro Israel resolution.
It trump loses those like ross better hope that Israel will consider him a jew for aliya….. it wont be long… the democratic administration has already encouraged and facilitated a wave of anti semitic abuse on Jewish children in their schools and campuses for 8 years… if they win the leftist muslim alliance will take control of the party and increase attacks on jewish children.
@ ArnoldHarris:Arnold, there is much truth in what you write.
What Israelis worry about on a practical level is a resolution that would end up with Israel being boycotted like South Africa if it does not comply to its terms. Israelis feel dependent on exporting and importing for their economic well being.
If Trump wins the US presidency seven weeks from now, an outcome which seems to grow more likely each week, nobody will give a damn about whatever Barack Husein Obama may choose to do for the sake of spitefulness before he is escorted out of the White House and to whatever golf course he shall choose for his permanent home.
I regard international bodies such as the United Nations Organization, the European Union, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and others of that ilk with supreme contempt. If I read Mr Trump’s American nationalism correctly, my stance on such issues mirror his.
I truly wish the Jewish State, the Jewish nation, and individual Jews everywhere would stop cringing and sucking up to goyim as though their actions or opinions are, or ought to be, significant for us. Because if it were otherwise, then the concept of HaShem would have no meaning for us.
Not so? Tell me why.
Arnold Harris, Outspeaker and joyous Deplorable
Is the Dennis Ross crystal ball an accurate one? This is his speculation.
Why is Bibi now ready to cave to Obama? He has not in seven years of Obama. He is giving up all the things he demanded at Bar Illan?
Do not believe that. He is far from perfect but he has at a minimum kept a PA state from happening. Yes Ted, you are correct that government would fall before Bibi caves in and lets the PA form an actual state. It is not happening.
Even if Ross were to be correct it will be one more resolution that does not get implemented on the ground. There will be no PA state. Autonomous Pal areas such now with the IDF having the ability to go in and out into this area when needed may continue for a long time or end up being slightly modified.
If a resolution were to be passed which isanti-Israel this could also set off the annexation of Area C in the Knesset in response or minimally the Jewish Towns in Judah/Samaria.