The French Will Make Things Worse

T. Belman.  Tobin is right on, except for this,

“The French, President Obama and Netanyahu all ought to know that if the Palestinians were ever to accept peace on terms that end the conflict for all time, there is no Israeli leader that could successfully resist such a peace plan.”

The Palestinians must give up more than their fight to destroy Israel. They must accept Israel with defensible borders and they must accept that Israel’s claim to Judea and Samaria beats their claim to the same lands. Without this, how would we know that the conflict is over.

By Jonathan Tobin, COMMENTARY 

With the Middle East peace process lying dead in the water for two years, what harm could come from an effort led by France to revive talks between Israel and the Palestinians? The answer is that, whenever one thinks things can’t get worse, the reality of this conflict is always there to remind us that yes, things can always get worse. Moreover, they almost always do when even the best-intended people try to pretend that another conference or paper or the right negotiator can solve a problem that has nothing to do with forums, resolutions or even skillful diplomacy.

French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault will arrive in Israel this weekend to try to lay the groundwork for a new peace initiative. But Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu deserves no blame for rejecting the French formula. It’s not just that Paris’s plan smacks of international coercion that is both deeply unfair to Israel. Nor is the biggest problem here the fact that similar schemes with analogous formulas have already been tried and failed.

The real problem is that the French, like the Americans, the United Nations and the “Diplomatic Quartet” that have trod this path before, are focusing on form rather than confronting substance. Peace between Israelis and Palestinians will come the day the latter gives up their century-old war on Zionism and put to rest their opposition to a Jewish state.

If the goal is to get closer to that moment, the French plan is an absurd waste of time. Indeed, the fact that the Palestinians have welcomed the scheme illustrates what’s wrong with it. Having torpedoed the talks sponsored by Secretary of State John Kerry two years ago and refusing every entreaty to return to the table since then, it’s hardly surprising that the Palestinians would like a plan that starts with an international conclave convened by the French to where neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians will be present.

That sort of diplomacy smacks of an international diktat where nations that are either neutral or hostile to Israel will seek to impose terms on it that compromise both its security and rights. Instead of a negotiation in which the two sides will be forced to recognize each other’s legitimacy, such a process is a one-sided attempt merely to orchestrate another Israeli territorial retreat in which it will be asked to trade land for the hope of peace. Moreover, is there any reason for Israel to trust nations that, like France, voted for a recent UNESCO resolution that didn’t even recognize historic Jewish ties to holy sites in Jerusalem such as the Western Wall or the Temple Mount?

But even if we lay aside the obvious unsuitability of any plan that is so skewed against the Israelis even before it begins, Netanyahu’s rejection makes sense because the premise of the negotiation is false. The French and the international community that appears to be supporting their initiative act as if the last 23 years of history hadn’t happened. Must we remind them that Israel has already placed on the table the same terms that peace process advocates always speak of being the solution that “everyone knows” will be the way to end the conflict? Is it really necessary to point out that the Palestinians said no to those terms — independence and a state that includes almost all of the West Bank, Gaza, and a share of Jerusalem — in 2000, 2001, and 2008? Must we point out that since the last of those offers that sent Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas fleeing from the negotiating table, he has refused to negotiate seriously even when Netanyahu offered in the Kerry talks to leave the West Bank?

Obviously, the answer is yes to all three questions.

But even if anyone thought Abbas would give a different answer to peace than he has previously provided, no one in Paris or in any of the other foreign capitals where this proposal is being discussed is anyone taking into account the fact that Abbas doesn’t speak for all of the Palestinians. Two million of them live in Gaza from which Israel withdrew every soldier, settler and settlement in 2005, and which is now ruled as an independent Palestinian state in all but name by Hamas terrorists. How can even a theoretical deal that grants sovereignty to the PA make any sense so long as Hamas is in place in Gaza and might well expand their rule to the West Bank once Israel does the international community’s bidding?

The answer is that it doesn’t. The only answer that would make sense would be for Abbas to accept Netanyahu’s oft-stated offer of a resumption of direct negotiations that he repeated this week while, again, accepting the idea of two states for two peoples. But that can’t happen so long as Abbas refuses to accept the legitimacy of a Jewish state no matter where its boundaries would be drawn. And he won’t do that because Palestinian public opinion is unalterably opposed to such a formulation. Until a sea change in their political culture permits him or a successor to end the century-long war on Zionism and the Jewish presence in any part of the country that is inextricably tied to Palestinian national identity.

The French, President Obama and Netanyahu all ought to know that if the Palestinians were ever to accept peace on terms that end the conflict for all time, there is no Israeli leader that could successfully resist such a peace plan. The majority of Israelis would give up settlements and even perhaps some of their capital for peace. Building in Jerusalem and the settlement blocs that Israel would keep in the event of peace is no obstacle to a deal. Yet instead of dealing with Palestinian intransigence, the French, like President Obama, focus on their antagonism with Netanyahu.

That is problematic not just because it achieves nothing to get the region closer to peace. It’s foolish because it only encourages the Palestinians to think they won’t have to make the concessions they need to make if they really want two states instead of merely eliminating Israel. Every failed peace effort has led to a new round of violence, and this one won’t be an exception. It’s time for diplomats to realize that, like doctors, their primary responsibility is to do no harm. Unfortunately, that’s a lesson that no one tempted by the glory of making the ultimate deal (attention: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton) ought to forget.

May 14, 2016 | 80 Comments »

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30 Comments / 80 Comments

  2. @ honeybee:

    It seems that the goyim need things to be repeated until their last sigh. We hold out hope that they will eventually turn away from their Esavic and Ishmaelite irrationality and be good people as God intends. Until then we will defend ourselves spiritually, verbally and physically.

    By the way from what language was that quote translated?

  4. Thank you for all of the info Keli-A!

    I love when the goyim pretend not to understand. That’s how you know that they know that you know that they know that they’re full of shit.

  6. JoeBillScott

    More Arabs killed TODAY in Iraq & Syria than in Gaza.

    No serious calls for cease fire and an end to violence on all sides. Hardly a mention in the News and no leftist or Muslim/Arab protests in Europe or Turkey??

    I wonder why??? 🙂

  11. @ Keli-A:

    What the mental gnat who goes by the name CuriousAmerican has never been told is that he is a spiritual heir of the Biblical Esau, the older brother of Jacob.

    Esau was a liar, a thief, a rapist and a murderer. But most of all he just hated Jacob. Why was it necessary for Rebecca to urge Jacob to deceive Isaac in order to “steal” the birthright? Because she knew what her corrupt older son was and she knew that Esau had easily deceived his blind father Isaac (and many others) with his false piety. Esau sauntered around in a beautiful princely tunic and headdress befitting a first-born even though he had already thoughtlessly sold his birthright to the humble Jacob. His appearance and his manner in public, when he wasn’t secretly raping little boys, was like that of any Archbishop, Cardinal or Pope of the Catholic Church.

    He had/has many followers who also feign piety. They call themselves “Secularists”, “Catholics”, “Presbyterians”, “Humanists”, “Social Justice Activists”, “Antizionists”, etc.
    Esau was the spiritual ancestor of Rome, of the Church and of the line of Popes from Constantine until today. His false piety and need for supremacy over Jacob are his and his spiritual descendants’ hallmarks. CuriousAmerican is just another of the diminished, scattered and frustrated spawn of this evil.

  12. Keli-A Said:

    Re: christians? We Jews have no obligations towards them I don’t hate them. That said, I don’t trust them either as as Jew, but christianity? That’s another thing.

    Christians & Muslims are religions that both practice forced conversion. This the very reason Israel should beware of them. Both religions have practice the forced expulsion of their Jewish populations.

  13. CuriousAmerican Said:

    You quote tradition to defend the expulsion of all non-Jews. You insult Christians and you call me the hater?!

    A- We are Jews B- a nominal Jewish country with around 70% majority. C- while we do not at present operate under Jewish Law I do expect at a time in the future we will because it is our common destiny to do so. Readers Jews and gentiles of my comments should become familiar with Jewish law and it’s common sense principles….

    Re: christians? We Jews have no obligations towards them I don’t hate them. That said, I don’t trust them either as as Jew, but christianity? That’s another thing.

    Not once did I defend Hamas or the PA, …. liar!

    You call them Palestinians and demand we enfranchise them at our expense. I call thay a distinction without a difference.

    I merely point out the obvious. You have almost 4 Million disenfranchised Arabs in land you hold as your patrimony. This is not a recipe for success. When the world notices this, you call it anti-semitism.

    If it’s so obvious why state it over and over in most of your rants?

    Success? what the fuck yu talking about success? Success in my playbook is 4000000 less Arab microbes in my land and don’t care how they leave feet first or head first? Don’t care where they go either. If what you mean by success is that we gain the adoration of you gentiles than keep your faux adoration and stuff it where the sun don’t shine. The day we gain the respect and adoration of the gentiles is when we are in your ovens…… those have proven to be the only Jews you like.

  15. 1DavidKA Said:

    And, personally, i almost never answer to rude people — don’t want to waste my time.

    Arn’t you soooooooo very special

  16. CuriousAmerican Said:

    I think Yamit insists on cute women. He would dump you.

    I am a good cook, ” kissing fun, but cooking last” Amish saying

    CuriousAmerican Said:

    Finally, lock your refrigerator. Steroids will make you HUNGRY

    That’s why I am a good cook!!!!
    CuriousAmerican Said:

    Get some NAIR. Steroids will make you HAIRY!

    Yamit82 has “strange predilections” !!!!

  17. The one time the PA had elections they voted in Hamas a terrorist organization. The Hamas then kicked out the Fatah out of Gaza in a bloody coup. They knee caped (shot in the knees) Fatah members and threw them off high rises to their death.

    Many of the Fatah members fled Gaza and where saved by the IDF in a show of force near the crossings as Hamas was about to kill all the fleeing Fatah members. Ironic isn’t it Israel saving Fatah terrorists from fellow Arab terrorists?

    Abbas has not allowed elections since for fear of losing. Elections of a symbolic nature where held at Beir Zeit University recently and the Hamas got the most votes.

    Israel left in tact 100s of hot houses in Gaza in which ~1000s Gazans where employed and knew how to run. The continuation of these hot houses and would have allowed a continuation of a viable export business of flowers and produce.

    What did the Hamas do? They stripped all the metal out of these places to make weapons. They turned the land into terrorist training centers.

    Yet there are some Westerners like the French who believe that the Pals are ready to run a state. Really?

    The result of this state would be Gaza II rerun with Hamas/ and or ISIS taking over. Israel would be at war in a major war with a lot of dead people on both sides in short order after the creation of such a Pal state.

    So I suggest to the westerns who do not understand the middle east nor have a personal stake in it put your own houses in order before you bring ill conceived ideas to Israel and try to force them down Israel’s throat.

  18. @ 1DavidKA:

    I think you’ve missed quite a bit if you think he’s only stating facts. His opinions and skewing of reality flow from his anti Israel agenda.

  19. I’m also confused that so many commenters here are misconstruing the words of CuriousAmerican. What he says is 100% true. He is just stating plain facts; it’s not rocket science.

    And, personally, i almost never answer to rude people — don’t want to waste my time.

  20. @ CuriousAmerican:

    You really do seem to be at a loss Curious. Why should Israel ever retreat and empower our enemies occupying Judea and Samaria? We were forced to do that experiment in Gaza and have seen in a small way what would happen if we ever lost our minds and rewarded our enemies with an undeserved victory.

    Are you also among those Americans that subscribe to the re-conquistador Aztlan myth?

  21. @ CuriousAmerican:

    Because they are open enemies of Israel just as the Black Panthers are open enemies of America. Are either of them interested in “voting”? No! They believe in war and “might makes right.”

    We would be fools to surrender to them. There is a thankfully small and dying minority of Israelis who don’t understand this and they are Obama’s “good Israelis”. That should speak volumes to their sanity and yours.

  22. Let’s examine your paradigm:

    @ Bear Klein:

    Israel has a legal, historical and moral right to the land of Israel west of the Jordan River.

    This was never an issue with me. I was cool with it.

    @ Bear Klein:

    1. However, except for a small amount of people on the right Israelis do not want to incorporate large amounts of Arabs into Israel. The public does not want a bi-national state

    This is the rub. A problem. I stated it. You admit it. So why am I called the hater?

    @ Bear Klein:
    2. To be able to buy Arabs properties and facilitate their peaceful emigration (buying them out) the terrorists must be jailed, deported or killed otherwise they will exact revenge on the families of those leaving or those leaving before they actually leave. They have a death sentence for selling properties to Jews.

    I recommend buying out in secret and a quick flight out. But if that is your way, this is merely a difference of method.

    @ Bear Klein:
    Once you accomplish number 2 above an NGO working with the government should start enacting an humane assisted program of Arab emigration starting with East Jerusalem and Arab villages in Area C near Jewish Towns. Learn as you go and what problems come up. This will be fraught with problems imagined and not imagined. Just like a franchiser learns by first working on a few locations before expanding widely.

    Start with J&S first. Jerusalem will be a hard shell to crack. As the rest of the Arabs leave, many Jerusalem Arabs will go.

    But as long as it is humane, and the buy out reasonable, we only disagree on very minor issues.

    @ Bear Klein:
    Annex Area C. Help the Arabs there emigrate.

    Okay!

    @ Bear Klein:
    Register the people there. Ask do you want to stay and demonstrate loyalty to the Jewish Democratic State of Israel.

    By Jewish do you mean theocratically Jewish?!

    If not, would they be offered the vote?

    @ Bear Klein:
    This will require learning Hebrew;

    Absolutely no problem. But the standard should be reasonable. Eight grade Hebrew, not college level.

    @ Bear Klein:
    your children will be required to provide civil national service at age 18 to 20.

    Absolutely no problem So should the Haredim.

    @ Bear Klein:
    You will be required to inform on anyone planning terrorist acts including family members. This will be a condition of residency!

    That is not realistic. Rather inform them that consequences could follow for failure to inform. This is not a minor distinction. Requiring people to inform is totalitarian.

    @ Bear Klein:
    If after 10 years of residency they wish to apply for citizenship they may. There then will be at least a two year period to investigate if they have successfully fulfilled the requirements of residency prior to bestowing citizenship. If they and their immediate family have met the conditions citizenship can be bestowed upon them.

    Absolutely no problems.

    THIS MAKES SENSE!

    @ Bear Klein:

    Once Israel has successfully integrated Area C it can then work on Areas A and B. Unless you can be sure you know how to successfully help Arabs emigrate overseas and integrate others why would anyone in their right mind make the approximately 1,500,000 Arabs (of Area A/B in Judah & Samaria) Israeli residents yet alone citizens.

    I would expect a 25 year overall timeline; but ultimately A&B have to be taken into account. At the end of 25 years, all schools in Israel must only teach in Hebrew. No reason after that to have Arab as an official language. Will linguistically isolate the Arabs in J&S from Hamas and ISIS.

    With the offer of citizenship to A&B, they lose Arab only residency zoning. Ramallah has to be open to Jews. Simultaneouly, Jewish only housing has to be rescinded, inspite of Arieh King’s ideas.

    If you maintain exclusivity for small 500 member only communities, which in reality exclude Arabs, you will be creating problems. Simultaneously, Arab/Bedouin Negev towns such as Rahat become open to Jews.

    Y’see, I am not hostile to Jews.

    However, Israel has to be fair in issuing permits in Jerusalem and elsewhere.

    This is a terrorist’s dream, to be able to freely travel all over Israel with an Israeli ID card.

    Israel already has a tracking system worthy of a totalitarian’s dream. Every Arab is tracked. All Arab phone lines already run through Israeli trunks and exchanges. I am sure you already have an idea of who to target.

    Walk before you run and go step by step in this super risky proposition of incorporating a massive amount of Arabs into the State of Israel. If you can be highly confident that you can help large amounts of Arabs emigrate then you could start annexing parts of Area A (a City at at a time).

    Pay them to leave. Encourage women especially. Stops the breeding.

    Israel should NOT bring an Arab Trojan Horse into Zion. If you can NOT make sure a large amount of Arabs will emigrate, not do annex these areas and make these people residents.

    Back to square one. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. I am not a hater for pointing this out.

    But as you see … you and I agree on the basics.

    You must be a hater, like me.

    Careful or Keli-A will call you an anti-Semite.

  23. @ CuriousAmerican:Here is what (below) I want in the long term as the conflict will continue for quite a while. Please do not tell me what I want.

    The Arabs can not vote because Gaza is not a democracy and neither is the PA. Citizens Arabs of Israel may vote if they choose. If you are unable to see that you are intellectually blind or dishonest. Sorry but true. Palestinians do not vote in Syria or Lebanon is that our problem too? How about those in Iraq or Kuwait?

    New Paradigm for long term peace and stability for Israel

    If you want peace it is time to forget being politically correct and proportional in fighting Palestinian terrorism. It is time to be determined to win the conflict and not just say the conflict will continue forever. It is not acceptable that every few months or years that Palestinians shoot rockets at Israelis, blow up bombs, kidnap children or resort to other forms of violence against Jews in Israel.
    Two states in the Land of Israel west of the River Jordan is a formula for war not peace. The Palestinian (Arabs) have for 100 years not accepted the permanent presence of the Jews.

    Israel has a legal, historical and moral right to the land of Israel west of the Jordan River.

    1. However, except for a small amount of people on the right Israelis do not want to incorporate large amounts of Arabs into Israel. The public does not want a bi-national state
    2. To be able to buy Arabs properties and facilitate their peaceful emigration (buying them out) the terrorists must be jailed, deported or killed otherwise they will exact revenge on the families of those leaving or those leaving before they actually leave. They have a death sentence for selling properties to Jews.
    Once you accomplish number 2 above an NGO working with the government should start enacting an humane assisted program of Arab emigration starting with East Jerusalem and Arab villages in Area C near Jewish Towns. Learn as you go and what problems come up. This will be fraught with problems imagined and not imagined. Just like a franchiser learns by first working on a few locations before expanding widely.

    Annex Area C. Help the Arabs there emigrate.
    Register the people there. Ask do you want to stay and demonstrate loyalty to the Jewish Democratic State of Israel.
    This will require learning Hebrew; your children will be required to provide civil national service at age 18 to 20.
    You will be required to inform on anyone planning terrorist acts including family members. This will be a condition of residency!

    If after 10 years of residency they wish to apply for citizenship they may. There then will be at least a two year period to investigate if they have successfully fulfilled the requirements of residency prior to bestowing citizenship. If they and their immediate family have met the conditions citizenship can be bestowed upon them.

    Once Israel has successfully integrated Area C it can then work on Areas A and B. Unless you can be sure you know how to successfully help Arabs emigrate overseas and integrate others why would anyone in their right mind make the approximately 1,500,000 Arabs (of Area A/B in Judah & Samaria) Israeli residents yet alone citizens. This is a terrorist’s dream, to be able to freely travel all over Israel with an Israeli ID card.

    Walk before you run and go step by step in this super risky proposition of incorporating a massive amount of Arabs into the State of Israel. If you can be highly confident that you can help large amounts of Arabs emigrate then you could start annexing parts of Area A (a City at at a time). Israel should NOT bring an Arab Trojan Horse into Zion. If you can NOT make sure a large amount of Arabs will emigrate, not do annex these areas and make these people residents.

  24. @ Bear Klein:
    Curios Israel is a democracy even if you do not see it. Fact. Yes there are enemies in Gaza and Judah/Samaria who are not Israeli citizens and yes that is a problem.

    Good, you admit the problem! I am not calling you a hater.

    Israel is a democracy if you are a Jew or one of the lucky ’48 Arabs.

    For the other Arabs it is NOT a democracy. Citizenship is not even offered to them.

    My solution is pay the Arabs to leave; but that usually causes a slew of insults in my direction.

    What you want is the situation to continue, without anyone noticing.

    Would be nice but it ain’t gonna happen.

    Would be nice if the Arabs quit Haram al-Sharif -[I think they should]- and give it back to the Sanhedrin, but it also ain’t gonna happen.

    Why are my observations dishonestly labelled as hate. Is only cheerleading allowed here?

  25. @ honeybee:

    CuriousAmerican Said:

    Steroids also make women fat. You would lose your girlish figure.

    I would provide shade in the Summer’s heat and warmth in the Winter’s cold.

    I think Yamit insists on cute women. He would dump you.

    Lock up your guns for the duration of the steroids, unless someone in Texas needs killing. Seriously, steroid psychosis can kick in at 40 mg.

    Finally, lock your refrigerator. Steroids will make you HUNGRY!

    Get some NAIR. Steroids will make you HAIRY!

  26. Curios Israel is a democracy even if you do not see it. Fact. Yes there are enemies in Gaza and Judah/Samaria who are not Israeli citizens and yes that is a problem.

  28. @ Keli-A:
    You do have a knack of pissing off so many disparate commenters on this site to a man and women who see you for what you are…… You are a lousy christian supporting those who are terrorizing brutalizing and even murdering other Arab christians. 🙂 Not that I care ????

    You quote tradition to defend the expulsion of all non-Jews. You insult Christians and you call me the hater?!

    Not once did I defend Hamas or the PA, …. liar!

    I merely point out the obvious. You have almost 4 Million disenfranchised Arabs in land you hold as your patrimony. This is not a recipe for success. When the world notices this, you call it anti-semitism.

    What you want is this: Move along citizen. Nothing to see here.

  29. @ honeybee:
    Then I would be his perfect mate. A Jewish berserker ?

    Steroids also make women fat. You would lose your girlish figure.

  30. CuriousAmerican Said:

    You may end up nastier, and more vicious, than Yamit.

    Then I would be his perfect mate. A Jewish berserker ?

    CA you have terrible taste in Conjunto music.