T. Belman. The Shin Bet did not violate the law. The Israeli establishment has authorized these extreme measures. There will be the argument made, that Israeli citizens and Arab terrorists should be treated the same. I believe otherwise. The Israeli citizen should be prosecuted as a criminal entitled to his rights whereas an Arab terrorist should be prosecuted as an enemy combatant.
The torture described by Jewish suspects in the Duma arson-murder case is strikingly similar to descriptions by Palestinian torture victims.
A faint whiff of capitulation wafts from the highly unusual statement issued by the Shin Bet security service in response to allegations that it had tortured the minors suspected of involvement in the fire-bombing of the Dewabsheh family home in Duma last July.
The arson is only mentioned in the third paragraph of the statement, as one of a slew of violent incidents allegedly perpetrated by the “radical and anti-Zionist ideological group that resorted to violence to change the system of government by means of attacks that would further its aims.”
As described on Thursday night by lawyers from the Honenu organization, the alleged torture of the suspects, who have been detained since the end of last month, was strikingly similar to that testified to by Palestinians who have been tortured.
The allegation made by the lawyers was based on information provided by the suspects themselves, with whom the lawyers met for the first time on Wednesday night.
According to the lawyers, the suspects confessed under torture to a series of violent incidents, such as the torching of mosques, but they did not confess to the arson of the house in Duma.
Attorneys Adi Kedar and Itamar Ben Gvir stressed that, to the best of their knowledge, the Shin Bet currently does not have sufficient evidence against their clients.
The torture practiced by the Shin Bet during investigations is not based on violence but on two principles: The first is confusing the suspect to the point that he doesn’t know where he is and is prepared to trust the interrogator who helps him get out of his situation.
The second is never to leave physical marks that can be seen by the naked eye.
The Shin Bet specializes in knotting and tying, in putting people in painful positions, where every deviation from orders brings a violent response, such as a blow. The torture that was definitely dished out to at least one of the suspects began in recent days, towards the end of the period during which the detainees were prevented from meeting with their attorneys.
Despite a High Court ruling, the Shin Bet has continued to torture Palestinians in recent years, while altering the methods and durations of the torture sessions. Various attorneys general left a small opening that turned the court’s ruling – giving retroactive protection to an interrogator who used violent means – into a door.
Today, the torture process is completely confidential. It is never mentioned in court proceedings and claims of torture are closed, time after time. The transfer of responsibility for checking claims of torture from the Shin Bet to the justice ministry has done nothing to change the situation.
The torture of the suspects in the Duma case may return the issue to the headlines and provoke parliamentary and judicial calls for an end to the use of such measures. It’s probable there will also be demands that the emergency regulations on which the Shin Bet relies be constrained. (One of them was renewed this week by the Knesset Justice Committee headed by Nissan Slomiansky of Habayit Hayehudi.)
When publication of details of the investigation is finally allowed, there is likely to be a contest over the narrative between the Shin Bet and right-wing activists.
The point man at this stage is Bezalel Smotrich (Habayit Hayehudi,) but public pressure is likely to draw other Knesset members into the fray. They are likely to argue that the fact that the suspects did not confess to the arson in Duma, even under torture, shows that the Shin Bet went too far with too little evidence, leading to the bleak conclusion,
The Shin Bet is likely to argue in turn that, even if the Duma case was not solved, it destroyed a violent sabotage infrastructure that threatened Israel. The spin will be that real danger was averted and that the imprisonment of some of the group’s members was a significant achievement.
In recent months, a good deal of intelligence material has been collected about “The Revolt,” a plan drawn up by right-wing activist Meir Ettinger to attack Palestinians in order to bring about the collapse of Israel and its replacement with an Israeli kingdom.
In its statement issued on Thursday, the Shin Bet wrote that “in light of the significant security threat from the activities of the group and the need to prevent them from carrying out further terror attacks, several key suspects have been detained for questioning.”
Documents discovered last July documented the essential ideas of the revolt and its activities, including, among other things, arson attacks on homes with their inhabitants inside. Such was the case in Duma. Right-wing activist Moshe Orbach was charged with writing the documents.
The current case, the details of which can’t be published and the end of which is not yet known, will have wide repercussions for the status of the Shin Bet among the nationalist-religious and settlement populations.
The service regards its links with the settlement establishment as being an important asset and engages in advocacy about its activities in order to obtain legitimacy – and perhaps also intelligence to act against the radicals.
The current aggressive investigation undermines that trust to an extent. In a rare step for an investigation that is still in progress, a senor Shin Bet official met recently with the leadership of a settlement that wanted to complain about the treatment of a settlement member who had been arrested, interrogated and released. Such meetings are likely to continue.
Anonymous right-wing sources promised on Thursday night to hold a “mother’s protest” outside the home of Shin Bet head Yoram Cohen in Jerusalem. In contrast to his predecessor, Yuval Diskin, who lived in a secular moshav distant from the religious right, Cohen lives in a mixed neighborhood in which a significant proportion of the residents belong to the Zionist-religious stream. He prays in a synagogue and his children study in religious Zionist schools.
As the details of the investigation become known, Cohen is likely to find himself in a situation similar to that of other senior security officials who suffered from abuse. Former deputy chief of staff Yair Naveh, for example, was forced to leave Givat Shmuel and move to ZIchron Ya’acov in similar circumstances.
@ Bear Klein:
I do not know who still reads this thread yet here it goes.
Netanyahu heads a monstrous regime akin to the worst anti-Semitic cesspools in history. Not for a second either him or his peons such as Nitzan, Weinstein and the Rivlin or Erdan can claim not knowing.
The young gal posted as justice minister is no caliber to deal with the monsters in her backyard.
We must all dread about what they did and will do to those that broke under torture. They and their families must find ways to protect themselves.
MARK MY WORDS, the psychopaths assembled in there WILL eventually and quite probably soon torture to death and “disappear” the bodies. It is the natural… progression … of such things.
The so called general security services aka G SS aka shabak, and in particular its “Jewish Sektion” is precisely a copy of the nefarious policia especial of the Juntas or the “Yevsekstzia”.
BOTTOM LINE: Netanyahu prepared all along for MEGA disengagement to get “his nobel”.
I can be wrong but I doubt it. What Duma was is a professional arson hit planned if not also perpetrated by specialized organizations operatives.
NOTE: The quickly organized Likud idiotic central committee gangs flash elections were conceived to distract the people.
Peron also had flash “elections” or something when he needed that.
Regime change by the people and a new government system, if not too late already, may still save us all.
@ Bear Klein:
I believe that I can get access to the “PROCLAMACION de los Patriotas de la Nacion”. That was the Argentinean Juntas backbone supporters Platform.
That document parallels exactly in words what the repugnant maggots are piping now.
My friends once torture and secrecy at that is institutionalized we become no different than any of the regimes we know all about.
This is not a country if bestial entities such as those torturers of young people are the standard bearers of its being. Bennett is part of the cesspool in full.
In words and deeds the monsters you espouse as your lieges destroyed what was left of Israel after Oslo.
Claiming that torture and rape included, are legitimate tools for the ghastly beasts to use to extract confessions from innocent is identical to the methods used by the Juntas.
What remains now is to be told by those monsters you support that the kids “disappeared” or suicided themselves.
@ Ted Belman:
I just read in Channel 7, INN, in Hebrew only, the Attorney for one of those youngsters being tortured, reporting to the press details of the bestial acts against the young Jew by the degenerate psychopaths in the shabak.
Even a solid rock will “confess” if placed under such horrible, monstrous ghouls.
My friends,
The “Jewish Sektion” is not far to being a copy of the KGB, “Yevsektzia” or even the Juntas special police that tortured, murdered and “made desaparecidos” out of 20000 or more in one country.
This system here in Israel simply cannot be fixed, is way beyond putrid.
Alternative government systems must be elected by the people, yet the voting must be organized outside the cesspool calling itself “israeli demokratiah”.
bernard ross Said:
I was also disturbed by this and wondered what makes them “anti-Zionist”. It seem like a slur to me.
But I guess its better than calling them right wing Zionist thugs or terrorists..
@ bernard ross:
Several of the passing or permanent comment writers tell us that the monstrous beasts in the so called shabak “Yevsekziah”, aka Jewish Sektion, did what they did and still do against the innocent minors because a law allows them to do that. I say that no such la exist.
My question was and remains specific. Exactly which law in the Israeli purported judicial system mandates, condones, allow torture of minors, or any torture at all?
I want to know which Law allows that.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Netanyahu: The truth is that the item authorized the specialized psychopaths, murderers at his command to both effect or at least coordinate with his “partners”, with Abbas, the arson and to lump it on Jews, the later action was done even before the fire was off. Rivlin, a total renegade in disguise and others were barking and howling in sync as well to taint Jews.
The whole caterva winks at such gruesome barbarities and WILL do much worse yet against the Jewish people and Heritage.
We live near and in the past frequented several muslim villages near us DURING DAY HOURS.
NO ONE GETS to enter THE villages at night if one does not belong to the muslim hamulas or are allowed specifically there. And certainly no one gets out either if ever gets in there at night.
They all, every single item in the so called military, judicial, police and G SS are gruesome criminals and so have been most if not all of the former “governments” at least since “Oslo”.
They all organized and carried out “disengagement”, assaults against Jewish town, farms, homes and families routinely since then.
NO ONE may be tortured ever. Once torture at any point is allowed the cancer it represents WILL spread.
All of those in any way connected with the Nazi like acts against the Duma fabricated suspects MUST be detained and face NEWLY elected judges after the whole boil is lanced.
If any is found guilty of torture or of organizing the Duma arson, he, she or they must be executed in public.
The real guilty murderers must be found and, regardless of their origin, face also the death penalty.
SHmuel HaLevi 2 Said:
It should allow for torture of minors who belong to the enemy collective who are trying to slaughter Jews. Beware the leftist mole orgs who now support the jailed Jews because they will seek to get out the enemy terrorists on the same basis, by claiming that the enemy is the same as the Israeli and that he should get the same rights, ridiculous.
All of a sudden the foreign left wing moles are whining and complaining about incitement when they have been the main cause of the incitement against Israel and Jews all over the world. When Jewish children are slaughtered in france it is the Israeli left wing foreign paid moles propaganda which is quoted by the murderers when they slaughter. When Jews are burned in revenged and stabbed on the streets in Israel it is a direct result of the incitement of the left wing foreign moles propaganda that Jews did the deed. the Left wing moles propaganda is responsible for all the killing of Jews taking place at this moment.
It is unacceptable that the GOI incarcerates true zionist Jews without evidence while allowing the foreign paid moles to roam free throughout the world defaming and libeling Jews. The foreign moles must be brought to the administrative detention as there are no greater inciters in Israel than these leftist moles who advocate to the world that Israel is evil. the moles must be locked up as they are a danger to all jews of any political persuasion because when the arab stabs Jews he does not look to his politics. These left wing moles have got away with murder for decades and MUST be brought to Justice.
As for rivlin, it is despicable that he attends these meetings of the foreign paid moles who travel the world to accuse Israeli soldiers and Israel of evil…. it is despicable of Rivlin that he jumped on the lynch mob bandwagon to defame and accuse Jewish settlers of murder without evidence. rivlin should resign and all the left wing moles spreading propaganda that is murdering Jews globally should be dragged kicking and screaming to detention, stripped of their Israeli citizenship and deported to ramallah or gaza like amira hass.
Israel needs a trump who will speak the truth about these despicable Kapo Jews. At least the Kapo Jews were trying to save their own lives and did not spread lies that murdered Jews, unlike this despicable filth that take foreign money to spread lies and propaganda that murders Jews. These dirty dogs taking foreign money to collude in Jewish murder try to equate right wing patriot zionists who receive foreign donations to settle the homeland with their own despicable and filthy agenda. You can recognize the filthy liars by the fact that they call themselves “zionists” when the primary platform of their political agenda is to give the Jewish homeland to the muslims as quickly as possible. It is very sick to label oneself a zionist when doing exactly the opposite, such a deception proves the low depths to which they have sunk, that they cannot even truthfully describe themselves.
The last thing these despicable creatures should be doing is complaining about incitement which they have been doing for years.
Double trouble. Look for this to backfire badly. The pathological left will use this brutality to make the real Arab terrorists immune from similar treatment.
@ bernard ross:
Exactly which law allows for torture of minors?
In Argentina they did exactly the same as the criminals, state paid at that, have been doing here for years.
Dandaman Said:
exactly, the law was changed by BB cabinet using the fake Duma arson as an excuse to incarcerate Jews…. pretending that israeli Jews should be treated the same as a hostile enemy collective whose every institution is focused on destroying Israel and killing Jews.
It appears that every time there is to be some sort of election there is suddenly a police investigation of a politician
BB wants to hold the likud party leadership elections shortly.
Bear Klein Said:
the fact that they call Jewish zionists and nationalists “anti zionist” demonstrates that they use the same Orwellian doublespeak as the laughable moniker of the “Zionist Union” whose goal is to give the Jewish homeland to muslims to build their homes. We have the topsy turvy Orwell world where zionists are called anti zionists… where settlers seeking to settle the Jewish homeland of YS are called anti zionists…. how can folks talking like that be trusted in anything they say?????????
And what is wrong with regime change in Israel? Isnt that what every politician out of power wants? Shin Bet appears to take their scripts from those against Jewish Zionism and Jewish nationalism.Bear Klein Said:
what are these “severe terrorist attacks” they allege have taken place???? I haven’t read of an arab cafe blowing up with dozens of bombed arabs, I haven’t heard of arabs being stabbed by roving Jews who stab arabs. the Duma arson is undoubtedly an arab arson in the center of the village and even if it were Jews it would be an isolated revenge act, like the revenge act of the burning of one arab after the kidnappings and murder of Jews. There are no Jews calling for the murder of arabs, although there has been reasonable provocation for such acts. Equating the repeated culture of killing Jews to some isolated revenge murders is an insult to the intelligence of any Jew… but not to those who may seek the equation in order to achieve the goal of demonizing real zionists in order to give their Jewish homeland to muslims for homes being built by euros. When all the scandalous acts of the current GOI towards actual, rather than fake zionists and nationalists, cease then I will cease pointing out their obvious lies…. they can always prove me wrong by acting differently.
That’s the problem, Ted.
Anti-Zionist Jewish terrorists want regime change in Israel,’ Shin Bet charges
Domestic spy organization was moved to respond to allegations of torture made by lawyers for suspected far-rightists.
The Shin Bet domestic intelligence agency issued a detailed denial on Thursday in response to claims of torture made by lawyers representing Jewish suspects who are in custody as part of the investigation into July’s arson attack in Duma, in which a Palestinian toddler and his parents were murdered.
“Recently, a Jewish terrorist organization has been investigated. Its operatives are suspected of severe terrorist attacks, which endangered lives, holy sites, and property,” the Shin Bet said. http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Anti-Zionist-Jewish-terrorists-want-regime-change-in-Israel-Shin-Bet-charges-437680
Dance around the facts all we want.
Torture junta style has been for quite a while SOP for the beasts in question. Fabrication of files is nothing new and has been used for decades.
Pogrom styled acts? Of course. I mean, honestly.
How many violent and even mass expulsions have been effected against Jews?
Now…
I lived in two countries, besides Israel, where I observed precisely the same procedures we witness now again, here.
Does anyone doubt that Netanyahu, Ya’alon, etc, knew all along?
And just as much knew Sharon Barak, Rabin, Peres, Olmert, etc.
Either the people wakes up to the facts of we will be destroyed by the renegades or many colors.
Let us remember that the same GOI which continues to deceive Israelis about their allowance of EU criminals to build muslim homes on the Jewish homeland while pretending they know nothing about it….. that the same pretenders who came up with the Duma terror Jew narrative and quickly exploited that narrative to incarcerate those who seek Jewish homes in YS and seek to end muslim abuse of Jews in Israel, those who demonized Jewish zionists in the land of Israel…. How can those who daily do nothing about the EU scum who daily lies and libels Israel and the Jews…. how can those Jewish facilitators of european crimes be trusted in the Duma case? No one brings BB to account for this crime in YS which he facilitates just as he allowed muslim abuse of Jews in Israel and the MOunt throughout his terms.
Under BB’s Israel there is more muslim abuse of Jews than france and Jewish criminals are equated with the enemy arab muslim terror collective who teach their children that Jews are sons of apes and pigs… it is scandalous and is the continuing cause of worldwide anti semitism.
Any “evidence” presented against Jews wrt Duma should be carefully vetted by Israeli Jews as ALL evidence points towards a frameup aimed at covering up the incompetence and negligence of the GOI(Yaalon,BB, Rivlin, Erdan) AND their direct responsibility for the ensuing revenge stabbings of Jews in israel and the diaspora. In other nations they would have already been forced to resign and perhaps indicted for their gross incompetence. Furthermore, the fact that they quickly came up with their jewish incarceration law points towards a possible false flag or complicity in seizing of an opportunity to quash Jewish dissenters. it is unlikely that the shin bet will come up with any evidence pointing away from Jews and smearing the GOI leadership.
High ups, and their appointees, tend to collude in aiding each other. Nationalists should beware of GOI and leftist attempts to equate the treatment of the proven jew killing enemy occupying YS with Israeli Jews. Perhaps that is the reason the leftist court has freed 2 Jews:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/205199#.VnbTrvkrLIU
I do not beleive the gov and any evidence they may now cook up after many months, I have lived too long and observed these practices in various countries too many times not to recognize it again here.
Although i agree in general I believe you are in error in specifics. A suspect is not a terrorist. I beleive that it should be changed to be an non-israeli west bank arab. It is not an individual arab, proven terrorist or suspect, which is the danger but the entire collective. The entire collective remains as a proven hostile, enemy population whose collective culture seeks to destroy Israel and slaughter Jews. It is absurd to consider treating the enemy collective equally with Israeli Jews. This is the grand error which was perpetrated by the BB cabinet when they sought to equate Jewish criminals with the jew slaughtering enemy collective. Only an idiot would treat a criminal family member the same as those seeking to murder his children. Their entire culture right to the top leadership authenticates my position. Torture of non israeli arab citizens of the hostile collective MUST continue becuase DUH, they are the enemy who kills jews for decades.
as for Israeli arab citizens that is a conundrum because they have Israeli citizenship and protection. However, they are also proven to have failed in their integraton and loyalty to the Jewish state and logically speaking also cannot be considered equally trustworthy until they prove otherwises. In that respect it becomes important in both the cases of Israeli arabs AND the hostile west bank arabs that ALL cases of anti semitic incitement should be severely criminalized and loss of citizenship and residency, including deportation outside of all Israel should be instituted.
I repeat, it is absurd to treat Israeli Jews equally with the enemy population.. This must NOT be an acceptable standard but the left will now seek to have the enemy collective treated equally with Israeli Jews by saying that Shin Bet should cease the methods against the enemy… that is ridiculous.
Charges are needed as this needs to see the light of day no matter which way the hammer falls and get into court or be dismissed if not enough evidence is found to convict.
Ted, is correct enemy combatants should be treated different the Israeli citizens. Citizens need due process without administrative detention of say more than a week.