Path to citizenship v. compensated emigration – THE DEBATE

By Ted Belman

Here is the first exchange between Mike Wise and Martin Sherman pertaining to ONE STATE PLAN: Israel Sovereignty in the West Bank – DRAFT.

On 12/7/2015 1:29 PM, Martin Sherman wrote and Mike Wise responded:

Mike,

This is a blueprint for the Lebanonization of Israel.

I think it is time to drop that threat. Lebanese Maronite Christians  constitute about 22%  of the total population of Lebanon. Lebanon’s constitution was intended to guarantee political representation for each of the nation’s ethno-religious groups. Under the terms of an unwritten agreement known as the National Pact between the various political and religious leaders of Lebanon, the president of the country must be a Maronite.
Israel has no such agreement. Israel was created and will remain a Jewish country. civil and religious rights for all. national rights for Jews only.


In practical terms very little will change after annexation other than the terrorist groups that run the west bank (including the PA, fatah, hamas and others) will all be outlawed and the law of the land will be civil law. the vast majority of the West Bank Arabs who would prefer not to be bullied by gangsters will be able to become productive members of society.


The money saved by ending the military occupation and building useless fences will be redirected to infrastructure and building a viable economy and society. do-gooders around the world will be welcome to invest and help the population (maybe 1.6 million people) become the envy of the arab world.

The problem is not so much a electoral majority but the socio-cultural fabric of the the nation that would result from a permanent, (potentially) enfranchised Muslim minority of 30-40%.

the socio-cultural fabric of the the nation will only improve when the military occupation ends and when terrorist leadership and beavior is restricted not only by Israel but by local residents who understand where their upside lies.

I cannot see how it would not result in accelerated Jewish emigration as the standard of living tumbles

when the military occupation ends Israel will enter a fantastic boom period. aliyah to israel will continue to grow maybe even exponentially as people realize that israel will finally become a significant economic player in the region. every increase in Israel’s population eventually led to remarkable boom times!

You write: “From a humanitarian perspective, social services available to the West Bank population will meet the highest global standards”

The massive diversion of budgets from enhancing services to the Jewish population will result in a grave deterioration of these services – or if they are not, in  an unsustainable budgetary deficit

see above… all referenced in the Plan as well.

I am all for annexation but in the absence of reducing the the Arab presence in the annexed areas the result will worse than the two-state nightmare

what?! the two state nightmare will bring in millions of Arabs to the west bank. read my essay from 2006:  http://www.onestateplan.com/looming

To endure as the nation state of the Jewish people Israel must address adequately two imperatives: The Geographic and the Demographic

the demography is moving along brilliantly. 137,000 Jewish babies in the past 12 months and net aliyah of 37,000 Jews. Additionally arabs continue to leave at at a rate in excess of 20,000 per year. of course total fertility rates have now fallen below 2.9

The former precludes the two-state model

The later precluded the one-state model – unless the Arab presence is reduced

that is what they told ben gurion in 1947. fortunately he ignored them. it also happens to be what haim weitzman started to preach and jabotinsky became a revisionist. too bad the Jewish world ignored jabotinsky and instead kissed british ass!

THEN MARTIN SHERMAN RESPONDED AGAIN IN BLUE:

Mike,

This is a blueprint for the Lebanonization of Israel.

I think it is time to drop that threat. Lebanese Maronite Christians  constitute about 22%  of the total population of Lebanon. Lebanon’s constitution was intended to guarantee political representation for each of the nation’s ethno-religious groups. Under the terms of an unwritten agreement known as the National Pact between the various political and religious leaders of Lebanon, the president of the country must be a Maronite.
Israel has no such agreement. Israel was created and will remain a Jewish country. civil and religious rights for all. national rights for Jews only.

The problem is not any formal agreement but incompatible – indeed, inimical –socio-ethnic groups  -“Lebanonization” refers the permanent state of civil war among the religious, ethnic and political factions within that country; 
In practical terms very little will change after annexation other than the terrorist groups that run the west bank (including the PA, fatah, hamas and others) will all be outlawed and the law of the land will be civil law.

And will be enforced by waving a magic wand?Even today the Israel law enforcement agencies do not do much of a job of enforcing law and order in the Negev and are loath to enter Bedouin communities.

the vast majority of the West Bank Arabs who would prefer not to be bullied by gangsters will be able to become productive members of society.

What possible evidence do have of that other than projecting Western preference on Muslim society?

The Arab Spring might have  put a sizable dent in that theory showing what happens to Arab society once the the Leviathan  “cork” of tyranny is removed and the Hobbesian horrors emerge


The money saved by ending the military occupation and building useless fences will be redirected to infrastructure and building a viable economy and society.
Closing the socio-economic gaps between the two societies will be a crippling budgetary  burden. It is more than doubtful if the money spent on current measures will be more than that needed to subdue a recalcitrant Muslim minority,  nourished on Judeophobic incitement for decades
do-gooders around the world will be welcome to invest and help the population (maybe 1.6 million people) become the envy of the arab world.
More likely, excoriated as traitorous Zionist lackeys
The problem is not so much a electoral majority but the socio-cultural fabric of the the nation that would result from a permanent, (potentially) enfranchised Muslim minority of 30-40%.

the socio-cultural fabric of the the nation will only improve when the military occupation ends and when terrorist leadership and beavior is restricted not only by Israel but by local residents who understand where their upside lies.

That has hardly be the case in say Scandinavian or France where far smaller, less inimical minorities have ravaged the socio-cultural fabric
I cannot see how it would not result in accelerated Jewish emigration as the standard of living tumbles

when the military occupation ends Israel will enter a fantastic boom period. aliyah to israel will continue to grow maybe even exponentially as people realize that israel will finally become a significant economic player in the region. every increase in Israel’s population eventually led to remarkable boom times!

Au contraire – not only is Aliya likely to grind to a shuddering halt but Yerida is likely accelerate as society becomes more Arab-ized , with more harassment of women, as social services and education standards drop because of budgetary demands, diverting funds to the Arab sector to close socio-economic gaps, and Israel descends from a post-industrial developed society into developing Levantine one 

You write: “From a humanitarian perspective, social services available to the West Bank population will meet the highest global standards”The massive diversion of budgets from enhancing services to the Jewish population will result in a grave deterioration of these services – or if they are not, in  an unsustainable budgetary deficit

see above… all referenced in the Plan as well.

Indeed – see above!

I am all for annexation but in the absence of reducing the the Arab presence in the annexed areas the result will worse than the two-state nightmare

what?! the two state nightmare will bring in millions of Arabs to the west bank. read my essay from 2006:  http://www.onestateplan.com/looming

I agree as to the danger you warn of  but–at least, in theory — a failure of a two-state failure can be rectified coercively by military force and conquest.  Once the Arab population in incorporated into the overall population a definitive coercive resolution is far less feasible
To endure as the nation state of the Jewish people Israel must address adequately two imperatives: The Geographic and the Demographic

the demography is moving along brilliantly. 137,000 Jewish babies in the past 12 months and net aliyah of 37,000 Jews. Additionally arabs continue to leave at at a rate in excess of 20,000 per year. of course total fertility rates have now fallen below 2.9

Yes but once you offer the Arabs the enhanced  conditions you describe, Arab emigration will come to a screeching halt.  Indeed, if you are right and the  annexed Arabs “(maybe 1.6 million people) become the envy of the arab world”  there will be inexorable pressure to admit family members from the neighboring states–and Mexcian style “illegals” infiltrating into the new “El Dorado”.On the other hand – as mentioned – as the overall standard/quality of living dips, Jewish emigration will rise

The former precludes the two-state model

The later precluded the one-state model – unless the Arab presence is reduced

that is what they told ben gurion in 1947. fortunately he ignored them. it also happens to be what haim weitzman started to preach and jabotinsky became a revisionist. too bad the Jewish world ignored jabotinsky and instead kissed british ass!

Hardly a relevant analogy – and not one for which I would be willing to “bet the farm on”
Then it was a gamble to gain what we didn’t have. This is a gamble that risks losing what we do have 

TO WHICH MIKE WISE RESPONDED AGAIN:

martin, you write and express yourself brilliantly even if you are wrong. so i am at a distinct disadvantage, however, here goes…

1. “Lebanonization” === israel is not lebanon: jews are not shiites or sunnis. or hizballah and the SLA. changing from military rule to civil rule is not as dramatic as you might imagine. getting rid of the gangster management (40,000 from tunisia and yemen etc were imported by our genius rabin of altalina fame) is only a plus. the perception that abu mazen and his cronies are protecting israel is absurd. removing them will only be a plus and impact the current mini lebanonization that israel is suffering from.

no one argues that jews and arabs are compatible, but the alternatives are far worse. of course, your humanitarian suggestion that someone pay the “palestinian=southern syrian arab” population $100,000 a head is super. and can be also implemented during the annexation process. after all, once the two state delusion is put to rest, none of the arabs will want to be part of a zionist racist apartheid state (or would they??)!

as you know there are many fewer terror cells in green line israel than there are in the west bank. how come? take away all the blue id cards in green line israel and watch what happens…
furthermore, the terrorists are certainly encouraged when they daily hear that there will be two states from our friend Kerry, buji, tzipi and other idiots. remove that possibility, give blue id cards and the benefits and watch what happens. all surveys proved that the vast majority of arabs in israel and the west bank, in view of what is happening post obama’s arab spring would be delighted to be part of israel. no PA no fatah no hamas.

of course, israel has been negligent in handling the Bedouin community, but that is a general issue of crime and law enforcement. there are criminals of all stripes and society must enforce law and order. see one of my favorite sayings in pirkei avot 3:2.

the bogeyman of “incorporating: arabs into israel” needs to be defined a bit more carefully. it may scare people but it may not have any real substance.
jews have done well for 1850 years in societies much more hostile than what you are imagining. and they were barely a couple of percent. nonetheless, they very often had remarkable success.
indeed people often thought that a couple percent of jews actually owned and controlled entire countries. LOL!

now imagine a society which is 67% jewish and that majority controls all the elements of a modern 21 st century country (military, economic, finance, technology legal, education, etc…)
will that majority be eaten up by the hodgepodge of a minority? i once had an extended conversation with yechezkel dror, a bonafide expert on societies etc. he said that once a socirty has more than a 20% minority it will began to crumble. i asked him whether the world expert on the subject had studied any societies with a 67% jewish majority. of course he said no. he focused on belgium and whatever. i suggested that he not come to any immediate conclusions about a powerful jewish majority country. he smiled and could not answer, because it is not clear that one can draw easy analogies.
do not underestimate the strength of the jewish nation…. i suspect that the majority long term will consume the minorities. unless you believe that our product is not a better and stronger product.
there is little doubt that in the current global environment and in view of the fact that the digital world makes israel a very attractive destination for young and old jews that we will see a very significant increase in aliya… hang on.
by the way, Israel has secured its borders very well. even the sinai border has been sealed and there are few if any foreigners arriving…

people always said that bringing new populations Will cripple the country. of course, they were always wrong. construction , consumption, business partnering between arab and jew to enter new markets etc…
one day, even the ethipian aliya will be viewed favorably.

THEN I PUT IN MY TWO CENTS:

This discussion is fabulous. Now I have to figure out how to best set it up as a post.

My immediate response is that you are both right.

I have preferred a staged process in which we annex a facsimile of Area C and perhaps some of Area B. Then we take a census of the Arabs living there and issue them identity cards. This is to be able to identify and remove infiltrators.

Once done we can begin negotiations for autonomy for the rest. But Fatah and Hamas and the PLO must be banned and their members banished to Gaza or anywhere else in the world they want to go to.This will go on for decades but it will lessen the pressure to give them citizenship or enable them to change us.

During these decades we encourage emigration.

I believe this approach will lessen the risk of doing something wrong and give us more flexibility.

NEEDLESS TO SAY, THEY BOTH SHOT ME DOWN. MARTIN WROTE WITH MIKE CONCURRING:

My immediate response is that you are both right.

Not really possible

I have preferred a staged process in which we annex a facsimile of Area C and perhaps some of Area B
As we have discussed numerous times this will leave Israel with unmanagebly long and torturous borders, virtually impossible to demarcate and secure, making the reach of Israel’s sovereign territory undefined and undefended/undefenSible

. Then we take a census of the Arabs living there and issue them identity cards. This is to be able to identify and remove infiltrators.

You mean back to “pass book” policy of Apartheid South Africa?

This would be impossible to enforce effectively without Gestapo-like intrusiveness with pervasive and invasive documentation checks

Once infiltrators are identified and removed (presumably to Areas A & B, what would prevent them for re-infiltrating through the long porous undefined and unsecured borders of Area C

Once done we can begin negotiations for autonomy for the rest. But Fatah and Hamas and the PLO must be banned and their members banished to Gaza or anywhere else in the world they want to go to.This will go on for decades but it will lessen the pressure to give them citizenship or enable them to change us.

During these decades we encourage emigration

Why would they emigrate if they have the benefits of living under benign Israeli rule?
How would such emigration be encouraged? .

I believe this approach will lessen the risk of doing something wrong and give us more flexibilityI
The approach itself is wrong and will only exacerbate the problems it purports of ameliorate

The political “pain” and international furor involved in annexing Area C will be virtually identiCal to that involved in annexing the entire area (A, B, & C)

AFTER WHICH MARTIN AND MIKE HAD ANOTHER EXCHANGE: SHERMAN IS IN BOLD:

martin,
we need to confront the reality that there is an arab population that is not leaving.

I beg to differ – it is not the reality. It is pessimistic speculation with little to back it up – and perhaps an attempt to unilaterally  declare yourself the victor in this exchange

The large majority of the Arabs in Israel are a result of economic migration.  With sufficiently robust disincentives for the individual to stay and equally tempting incentives to leave there is no reason to believe this cannot be accomplished – unless you beleive that – as individuals rather than a collective – the Palestinians- are devoid of rational responses to given stimulii. However, this is clearly not what you believe –since you seem to think that the promise of more prosperous life will make them more amenable to Jewish dominance which generates that prosperity.

thus we must seek a modus vivandi with the peaceful part of the population and deal

I would strongly advise against holding your breath until that happens – Arab enmity against the Jews is rooted what the Jews are, not what they do
vigorously with the  jihadists elements. we do not know if they represents less than 1% of the population (16,000 people) or up to 5%. but they can be neutralized.

btw: as you know the yasam police are the most feared armed police in the country,

Particlualry against Jewish settlers. Not sure what the Yasam point is – making  Israel a police state?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasam.
.The Yasam were heavily involved in the Israeli disengagement of August 2005 and Amona evacuation, and have been under widespread criticism for these and other operations
the remaining arabs will indeed want to be part of Israel.
“after all, once the two state delusion is put to rest, none of the arabs will want to be part of a zionist racist apartheid state…!” (sorry for the sarcasm!)

imposition of law and order is a political decision. and once the occupation ends, the game and motivations change on both sides.
Indeed they might – which is  precisely my concern
btw: the rise of ISIS may have possibly alerted western civilization to the threats that it an israel face. we may have more allies in the near future that you have experienced in the past 20 years.  even the USA may wake up with a new president!


The precedent of 9/11 and A-Qada/Taliban, Madrid and London Bulgaria etc  leaves little room for optimism

to date, european countries have had little interest in consuming moslem minorities. they have no babies and no confidence in their traditions and culture. but they may also wake up!
Hardly a sound reason for creating an (initial)  30-40% Musim minority over here
i would be delighted if 1.6 million palestinians decided to relocate to northern california or alaska.
“If you will it is is no dream”
Moreover there are many other destination besides Alaska and CA.

but it is not in the cards,

That is an arbitrary statement devised to avoid argument- saying it is so doesn’t make it so 

so let’s find a sensible way to end the occupation and avoid a terro state 5 miles from ben gurion airport.
“Sensible” is hardly turning Israel into a tinderbox of inter-ethnic civil war

TO MY COLLEAGUE CAROLINE, A CAVEAT 

www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Into-the-fray-To-my-colleague-Caroline-a-caveat-347503 

I strongly concur with Caroline B. Glick’s diagnosis of the fatal failings of the two-state formula, and disagree just as strongly with the prescription she offers to remedy them. 

SOVEREIGNTY? YES, BUT LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP

www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Into-the-fray-Sovereignty-Yes-but-look-before-you-leap-337716 

Extending Jewish sovereignty over Judea-Samaria is imperative, but some proposals for this imperil Israel no less than the two-state folly.

ISLAMIZING ISRAEL – WHEN THE RADICAL LEFT AND HARD RIGHT CONCUR

www.jpost.com/Opinion/Into-the-Fray-Islamizing-Israel-when-the-radical-Left-and-hard-Right-concur-396065 

The almost unavoidable result of annexing the territories & enfranchising their Arab population would be to eventually create a Muslim-majority tyranny.
when we eliminate the occupation, people’s attitudes on both sides of the green line will change dramatically!.

Again I agree – and if we annex the all the territory (which I endorse) but retain the Arab population I believe we will have set the course for a process of the Islamization  of Israel

I HOPE THIS EXCHANGE IS EASY TO FOLLOW.

December 9, 2015 | 17 Comments »

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17 Comments / 17 Comments

  1. @ Bear Klein:
    Actually, despite the fact that Oslo failed and with it the TSS, Israel acted responsibly keeping to it’s commitments and one could argue, went well beyond. The other side are in material breach of commitments and proudly admit their agenda as genocide. Israel is in a strong position to freeze any and all concessions for the foreseeable future, unless they wish to resolve issues through a process of give and take. Doubtful as the other side is never inclined to give. Arafat signed an agreement to live in peace with Israel and he was the representative of his people, so they cannot walk that recognition back. So, although it has failed, it proves something, and that is Israel’s case before the world for it’s present positions and tomorrow. Israel has good relations in much of the region today and needs to tread carefully and not be influenced by charlatans.

  2. Who has heard of this “wise guy”. It is just talk and that is fine to brainstorm, but it is undeveloped and not relevant, especially after the events of this year. Like peres and rabin, who had limited insight, just the opposite i am afraid, their plan had no escape clause, the peace train as they called it could not be stopped, in the midst of unrelenting terrorism against Israel. The wise guy and his fool, Glick have no capacity to take into account the present realities in Judea and Samaria. Still it does no harm for amateurs to try to improve themselves, people play the slots, invest in the lottery, probably a better chance of success, but, whatever, in this case they are amateurs who are also losers imho.

  3. @ mikewise:

    Absolutely you are correct the two state solution concept and OSLO must be buried deep into the Mediterranean with a 1000 kilo anchor.

    Yes you have succeeded in bringing up a new concept and bringing up many of the horrible things of the two state concept would bring about.

  4. There is always room for improvement. The world is work in progress. The Plan was originally proposed back in 2003 (yes 12 years ago) in order to get policymakers to start thinking creatively. It has been successful in that regard. But it takes time for people like Kerry to understand where two states our side of the Jordan will lead.
    The Plan leaves many open questions that must be resolved by clear thinking people. Not by political hacks and enemies of a Jewish Democratic State.

  5. @ mikewise:
    Mike, The truth yes if a Palestinian State was to be formed in Jordan we could easily tell the people in the west the problem of a Palestinian State is over it is in Jordan. The real world problem happens then is that the eastern border of Israel becomes a long terrorist hot zone back to pre 1967 days. Places that have not seen regular terrorism for decades would be seeing terrorism.

    This would be compounded by the free roaming of terrorists with Israel ID cards roaming around Israel.

    Mike your plan has many good points (NO More two state solution and Sovereignty) but you need to collaborate with an Israeli security expert and revise it. I mean this in a friendly positive manner. Once it is improved present it again.

    Bennett in his Israel Stability plan states right up front that it is not a solution to the conflict and it is not perfect and is subject to revision. This is “wise”. A 100 year conflict can not be solved with a magic wand.

    I say combine Bennett’s plan annex Area C to start (or a facsimile, all open areas plus Jewish Towns plus what is needed of B to make a secure area). Have a vote of which towns want to be incorporated into Israel. The Jewish Towns will say yes and the Arabs will either vote no or not vote.

    Then see if Sherman’s plan can be successful paying Arabs to leave starting with Area C and East Jerusalem.

  6. the Plan points out that :
    Outside agitators and enemies of Israel will be outraged that a solution (Israel democracy on the West Bank) was found and that the imaginary Palestinian “3,000 year old dream” of a sovereign state was not realized. Of course, they forget that Jordan is three times the size of Israel, occupies more than 75% of historic Palestine, and more than 4,000,000 Palestinian Arabs comprise 85% of its population. No one knows when the USA supported ruling Hashemite minority (imported from Arabia in the 1920’s), will be overthrown and replaced by Palestinian leadership or an ISIS style state. However, it is not unreasonable to presume that after Annexation, Palestinians will understand that if there is to be a Palestinian State it will be on the East Bank and not the West Bank of the Jordan River. The impact of such a state on the question of citizenship and demographics will be very significant. It would be irresponsible for Israel to make any agreements in today’s environment that would impact the possibility of a genuine two-state solution: a Jewish State on the West Bank and a Palestinian/Moslem State on the East Bank.

  7. 1. I think we should start with a version of Bennett’s plan by annexing Area C. To avoid annexing the Arabs of Area C into Israel a vote could be done city by city if they want Israeli law applied and to be annexed into Israel. All the Jewish Towns would vote yes. The Arabs I assume would either not vote or vote no. Pure democracy. We could then try and help the peaceful Arabs move voluntarily. The terrorist groups and their supporters would be forced elsewhere (anyway just a new concept to avoid more Israeli Arab residents or citizens.).

    2. See if we have ample success in assisting Arabs to emigrate. Then evaluate what to do in the large Arab city areas.

    3. Naive Democracy by importing an Arab Trojan Horse into Israel is not security but a nightmare. These Arabs are taught from birth Jews have no right to a country and Palestine is theirs. So even if there is less pure democracy and more physical security I will live with that.

  8. @ Ted Belman:
    Ted, you are basically correct in your approach. The thing Mike also misses if you annex it all and only offer residency to the Arabs or Area A/B their will be terrorism inside of Israel.

    Then the Pals will then start demanding a Bi-National Country from the river to the sea. The same people some are trying to appease in the west will turn on Israel.

    However you cut it you can not have 35% or more of Israel being Arabs with large amounts of them wanting your demise.

    The Autonomy you negotiate with Arabs of Area A./B could by individual city as Kedar recommends. If need to several fences could be built.

  9. Martin you wrote and Mike agreed.

    As we have discussed numerous times this will leave Israel with unmanagebly long and torturous borders, virtually impossible to demarcate and secure, making the reach of Israel’s sovereign territory undefined and undefended/undefenSible.

    Then we take a census of the Arabs living there and issue them identity cards. This is to be able to identify and remove infiltrators.

    You mean back to “pass book” policy of Apartheid South Africa?

    This would be impossible to enforce effectively without Gestapo-like intrusiveness with pervasive and invasive documentation checks

    Once infiltrators are identified and removed (presumably to Areas A & B, what would prevent them for re-infiltrating through the long porous undefined and unsecured borders of Area C

    Once done we can begin negotiations for autonomy for the rest. But Fatah and Hamas and the PLO must be banned and their members banished to Gaza or anywhere else in the world they want to go to.This will go on for decades but it will lessen the pressure to give them citizenship or enable them to change us.

    During these decades we encourage emigration

    Why would they emigrate if they have the benefits of living under benign Israeli rule?
    How would such emigration be encouraged? .

    I believe this approach will lessen the risk of doing something wrong and give us more flexibility.

    The approach itself is wrong and will only exacerbate the problems it purports of ameliorate

    The political “pain” and international furor involved in annexing Area C will be virtually identiCal to that involved in annexing the entire area (A, B, & C)

    I wrote a “facsimile of Area C”. What I meant was that we reshape Area C leaving some out and most in. In this way we can rationalize our borders. We could also annex some land designated as B within C.

    I do not advocate building a fence along the new border. What I proposed is not a “pass book”. Instead it is more like a residency permit as all Arabs got in Jerusalem when annexed.

    The Arabs in the land we annex will get the same rights as those in Jerusalem because of the annexation.

    The amount of land we annex is worth the potential enfranchising of the 80,000 or so Arabs there.

    The purpose of leaving Area A out is encourage emigration of the Arabs living there. In the meantime we negotiate their autonomy. We can always annex it later if we so desire.

    Eliakim Haetzni argues that granting autonomy can only be done by a sovereign. Somebody has to be sovereign. Thus we can annex all and provide that Area A will be a special area within Israel in which the Arabs can have autonomy but cannot get Israeli residency cards.

    This is very complex and I don’t know exactly how it will be set up. I am just giving ideas. The point is to encourage them to leave and not to stay. But to also avoid a path to citizenship for at least 95% of the Arabs.

    Israelis are dead set against including another 1.7 million Arabs in Israel. Mike’s plan will be rejected because of this.

    Similarly your plan is very problematic.I think you propose annexing first then inducing emigration. The Supreme Court will have much to say about that. My plan avoids that.

  10. I tend to agree with Martin Sherman’s views, if only because I don’t know of any nation-state with a population ratio of its founding people as low as 65%.

    But before we engage into peace plan details, I believe it is necessary to assert our legal rights from the River to the Sea. This is, hopefully, what will transpire out of the recent announcement by Tzipi Hotovely, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs.

  11. Tell your friends not to worry – the illegal aliens will protect them. And the Bermuda Triangle would offer the Palis a pleasant tropical environment devoid of oppressive Jews.

  12. @ babushka:
    I have friends in California (not Jerry Brown) and they would object to your importation of potential more San Bernanrdino Islamist types. Anyway Trump is going to keep these people out no?

    These Palis are ripe for the large open spaces of South Africa. Remember these South Africans keep advocating for the Palestinians, so they deserve each other. This would also persuade the remaining Jews in South Africa to either come home to Israel or as some have done move to Australia. Hopefully most pick Israel.

  13. California Governor Jerry Brown desperately wants his state to become a Third World hellhole and has actively encouraged a massive illegal alien/Islamo-refugee invasion. He might be receptive to a trade: California gets five million future Democrat-voter Palis, and Israel gets five million deliciously nutritious Fresno raisins.

    Win-win.

  14. Islam runs on two gears within the envelope of Islamic lands.
    First gear: This iluch drives Islam against all infidels in their midst until they are either converted, enslaved, expelled or destroyed.
    Once that is completed…
    Second gear: This iluch drives factions within Islam to convert, enslave, expel or destroy each other…

    All factions of Islam invade all other national and or religious states.
    Once sufficient numbers of Islamic entities allow it, the above cycles take place again.
    SOP for Islam since its inception. It will not ever change.

    Everyone is entitled to make his or her own decisions on what to do here.
    Put simply as we Gauchos of little brain do.
    In my view IT has been, is and will be either them or us.

  15. Reality Check:

    1. Except for a small amount of people on the right Israelis do not want to incorporate large amounts of Arabs into Israel. The public does not want a bi-national state

    2.To be able to buy Arabs properties and facilitate their peaceful emigration (buying them out) the terrorists must be jailed, deported or killed otherwise they will exact revenge on the families of those leaving or those leaving before they actually leave. They have a death sentence for selling properties to Jews.

    Once you accomplish number 2 above an NGO working with the government should start enacting an humane assisted program of Arab emigration starting with East Jerusalem and Arab villages in Area C near Jewish Towns. Learn as you go and what problems come up. This will be fraught with problems imagined and not imagined. Just like a franchiser learns by first working on a few locations before expanding widely.

    Annex Area C. Help the Arabs there emigrate.

    Register the people there. Ask do you want to stay and demonstrate loyalty to the Jewish Democratic State of Israel.
    This will require learning Hebrew, your children will be required to provide civil national service at age 18 to 20.
    You will be required to inform on anyone planning terrorist acts including family members. This will be a condition of residency!

    If after 10 years of residency they wish to apply for citizenship they may. There then will be at least a two year period to investigate if they have successfully fulfilled the requirements of residency prior to bestowing citizenship. If they and their immediate family have met the conditions citizenship can be bestowed upon them.

    Once Israel has successfully integrated Area C it can then work on Areas A and B. Unless you can be sure you know how to successfully help Arabs emigrate overseas and integrate others why would anyone in their right mind make the 700,000 Arabs of say Hevron (Hebron) Israeli residents yet alone citizens. This is a terrorists dream, to be able to freely travel all over Israel with an Israeli ID card.

    Walk before you run and go step by step in this super risky proposition of incorporating a massive amount of Arabs into the State of Israel. If you can be highly confident that you can help large amounts of Arabs emigrate then you could start annexing parts of Area A (a City at at a time). Israel should NOT bring an Arab Trojan Horse into Zion. If you can NOT make sure a large amount of Arabs will emigrate, not do annex these areas and make these people residents. Perhaps some areas such as Hevron become like San Marino or the Vatican (inside of Italy) where they have municipal level autonomy with trappings of a nation such as a flag and soccer team but are demilitarized.