This is my response to “What is Treason? by Francisco Gil-White posted earlier today.
Ted Belman
My friend Francisco Gil-White resorts to the Merriam Webster Dictionary for a definition of ‘treason”. But such definition is too simplistic when one attempts to indict one of treason in a court or in an article.
The Legal Dictionary defines treason as:
- “The betrayal of one’s own country by waging war against it or by consciously or purposely acting to aid its enemies.”
While this may give Francisco some comfort, this subsequent paragraph will not.
- “The crime of treason requires a traitorous intent. If a person unwittingly or unintentionally gives aid and comfort to an enemy of the United States during wartime, treason has not occurred. Similarly, a person who pursues a course of action that is intended to benefit the United States but mistakenly helps an enemy is not guilty of treason. Inadvertent disloyalty is never punishable as treason, no matter how much damage the United States suffers.”
I could rest my case here but prefer to deal with other of his comments.
Francisco cites that treason involves “knowingly helping your country’s enemies during war to be guilty of treason”.
He is wrong on two counts; “knowingly” is an inappropriate word in this context. “Intentionally” is far preferable. You must intend the consequences of your act. But that is also misleading. If the primary intention was to help Israel, it little matters that one intends to help one’s enemy in order to fulfill one’s primary intent. As long as the supporters of Israel intended to benefit Israel by their actions, they were not guilty of treason.
To be guilty of treason they must intend to harm Israel.
I stand by my assertion that the leaders wanted peace either naively or stupidly.
Yes the Israeli leaders lied. All leaders lie to achieve their policies. Just look at Obama’s lies. But that doesn’t make lying, right. Lying undermines democracy. The people have the right to demand their leaders tell them the truth and the whole truth. Unfortunately, the lying goes on. Abbas is no moderate as we are being told and so on.
What is more is that our leaders are withholding the truth which amounts to lying. Netanyahu refuses to say that Israel has the right to sovereignty over Judea and Samaria. He refuses to adopt the Levy Report which comes to this conclusion. He never takes public issue when he hears the refrain “Palestinian occupied land”. He rarely refers to the lands as disputed as past governments have done.
Thus he is allowing a false narrative to gain ascendancy. But this is not treason.
It is actually a most important issue but the discussion tends to miss the reality. There is only really one way for amy leader i n Israel to go and that is to go not quite for socialist revolution in Israel, no I am not saying that, but must follow the historical crisis internationally int eh capitalist system because that has always agfected the Jews…1929 Wall Street Crisis…effect on Germany…the Nazis get their opening and so on…that simplifies it terribly I know.
But if there is a parallel in Israel it is that a leader there must mobilise the great majority of the Jews behind a truly national and in part religious movement.
But we are talking here about an ELITE and being an elite has got a certain fear of the masses. With this fear Netanyahu like them all tend to see politics as a series of manouvres.
In that sence it is highly conscious behaviour.
The elite will arrest you if necessary as happened in the Disengagement. Dangerous and conscious.
Netanyahu has emerged out of the American business world. In this regard he is not so different from Bennett even, while Lapid is worst of all.
I am not sure what Francisco´s answer is. These rules apply to the whole elite and even Feiglin has his constituency partly among rich American donors. So who is left?
It is difficult to know why Ted would rest his case here – or indeed exactly what his case is.
In order for that quote to be relevant, One would have to maintain that Netanyahu (and the Israeli Establishment behind him) are engaging in their anti-Israel actions with an essentially benevolent intent.
This doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, and frankly is not that complex:-
1) Netanyahu is aware of the Nazi origins of the organisation which seeks – and for most practical purposes, has – a foothold in the World’s only Jewish state.
2) Netanyahu knows (for he is not a mindless fool) that if this fact were properly publicised the utterly fraudulent “peace” process would be over.
3) Netanyahu, instead of exposing and contextualising this generally unknown history, prefers to release dangerous Palestinian criminals “for peace”, and generally submit Israeli policy to foreign interests. (The list of treacherous activities could go on and on…).
This is not the result of stupidity on the part of Netanyahu. There is method to his madness. There is not much method to the madness of ostensible Jewish patriots who continually tolerate the activities of these arch-criminals and run their defense for them.
There as an abundance of prima facie evidence that Netanyahu (and many others) has committed – and continues to commit – Treason and Misprision of Treason.
Netanyahu will have the opportunity to explain his actions and demonstrate that the mens rea element which makes out those offences has not been established when he is indicted and committed for trial.
Felix Quigley Said:
Darlin, Felix,didn’t you know that Yamit82 is the “most interesting man in the world”. The very essence of conscious human thought and reason. And he is almost as good looking as Lieb Shriver,not quite, but almost.
This discussion, all of it, is a red herring. Sincé Lucy´s ancestor began to stand up and began to engage in a practice with her hands, and began to have dim thoughts about what she was doing, all human thought was becoming conscious. All of the thought and practice of this Israeli elite is conscious. Even Yamit82 is conscious. But thinking more that may be stretching it a bit.
Mr. Belman,
This is the link: http://www.oecd.org/investment/anti-bribery/anti-briberyconvention/43289694.pdf.
All the best to you.
@ XLucid:
Thank you very much for this info on Israeli law. Please provide me with a link for the Penal Code in English. I will come back to your comments after some reflection.
Livni the fig leaf for those pretending to be for YS. Who chose her? Who allows her to proceed without obstruction? Who pretends not to be rubber stamps? Meanwhile this leftist pretender, with no votes or constituency of merit, is running the major areas of interest to nationalists. BB gets to be squeaky clean, no blame, no responsibility, no loss of electoral votes,………who says that Livni’s choice was not an intentional agenda to deceive the public. J’accuse BB and the coalition.
Sorry, Bernard, I thought you were referring to my quotes. Apologies.
XLucid Said:
I am talking about Ted’s quotes which preceded his conclusion which i quoted regarding resting his case.
I would like a reasonable explanation of why Israelis are unaware of their legal rights and are taught that their own settlement is illegal or illegitimate by their own govt institutions of education and especially the justice system. A justice system which ignores jewish legal settlement rights and conspires to conceal and obfuscate those rights from the public through repeated decisions which are of advantage to the enemy is a corrupt and treasonous collective and system. Any current govt which does not seek to strike down those corruptions which continue to deceive the public is a collaborator in the continuing crime. Why does BB collaborate in this deception and corruption? The public has the right to demand the truth from their governors; the truth of the legitimacy and legality of jewish settlement in YS; the truth that the Jews are being intentionally swindled by the internationals and their Israeli collaborators. Every utterance of illegality, of illegitimacy is a swindle and every Israeli collaborator is a treasonous traitor. Every day the truth is withheld and not propagated is one more day of treason for all the collaborators who rubber stamp the deception. If Israel were to experience a revolution, an Israeli spring, I wonder how many would go to a newly appointed gallows in infamy. Israel would justifiably require its own Mme. De Farge. Treason and injustice must not be lightly suffered.
They are not quotes from US law but from Israeli Penal Law.
you quote US law, why?
IN my view it is treason because the one thread running through the decades is the intentional deception of the Isreli public in order to repeatedly impose unpopular agenda on the citizenry. This deception is through all the public and private institutions. The perpetrators are aware that if the public were not kept in continuing ignorance they would not be able to impose their agenda. Furthermore, naivete cannot be claimed because this same process of treasonous deception has repeatedly resulted in israeli deaths through terror. The terrorists are then released in a deceitful process of which no one is aware and of which they are deceitfully reassured. This is not a one time thing: it is an ongoing criminal conspiracy whose main intention is to keep the public ignorant of facts which will cause them to demand the opposite path. The repeated outcome of this conspiracy is that the enemy is aided. The repeated pattern of deception coupled with the knowledge that the enemy is aided is treason. The public is deceived and the enemy receives advantage: a repetitive ongoing pattern. The hallmark of treason is usually deception that results in aiding the enemy. There is not one shred of evidence to support the absence of treason. There is enough reason to bring charges and allow real courts, not the current appointed corrupt collaborators in the same treasonous pattern, to try the evidence. Perhaps an Israeli spring is required to get the deceitful, repetitive, treasonous pattern to end. As I observe now i see no end to this pattern.
If it is merely individual lies unrelated to agendas to deceive ongoing, there might be feeble excuse. However, even unintentional outcomes are punished in law: involuntary manslaughter. the ongoing agenda develops the credibility of conspiracy accusations. At the very least it demonstrates ego of such great magnitude that it embarks on the dangerous path that the public is stupid and whatever the leader does is right. “They do not need to know because I have such a great plan that wont fail that when they finally know they will regale me as a hero.” When the plan fails they sweep it under the rug and become targets for blackmail. By accepting the practice of lying one invites corruption to the highest levels.
It is not unintentional, it is conspiratorial, it is intentionally deceptive. The assumption of good intentions is an assumption not based in reason. A traitor sells his country for money, blackmail; gain or the avoidance of exposure, it is a common occurrence once one has been corrupted enough.
If the lie is maintained, perpetuated through appointment of judges and ministers, kept out of the education of the children growing up: then this is a treason which spans generations and of the highest crime. It is a treason of the present and the future. Unless we know the reason for these lies, non disclosures, conspiracy for continuing concealment then we cannot make a complete verdict. However, the fact of its continuing status and the coverup of those who pretend to be opposed but collaborate, call for serious questioning without trying to make excuses. There has been no explanation from BB or likud regarding the discussed behavior. If his plan is failing I wager he will conceal that failure for self-enrichment, self-aggrandizement and future posterity. The very idea that one man can totally affect the future of the Jewish nation is deep cause for concern. The very idea that the nations children and adults are intentionally kept in ignorance as to their historical and legal rights is indeed a behavior which points to treason and has the obligation to defend against such charges. It should not be assumed to be non treasonous without sufficient explanation and justification. No REASONABLE explanations have been given for Livnis appointment to negotiations and Justice and reasonable observation BEGS and REQuIRES explanation. These appointments, subsequent behavior, touting E1 prior to election, killing E1 after is on its face corrupt. Just as were Sharons actions. BB’s acts of omission and commission demonstrate a corrupt agenda and no intentions should be automatically assumed to make that agenda acceptable. One man and his minions control the jewish future and they connive to deprive the citizens of their rights to decide their own future through tricks, lies,manipulations, secrets. I would call this treason. They can demonstrate otherwise through their mouth and action.
The definition given by a legal dictionary gives only an idea of the principle at large. That is the reason why each country established its own Penal Code.
“Treason” represents a crime under the Israeli Penal Code. Notwithstanding the absence of any deliberate treason from the Israeli leaders part, no one is above punishment for recklessness.
As defined in the Israeli Penal Code (Article 20(a)), the recklessness, consists of the following: “(a) indifference – a casual attitude to the possibility that those consequences will result; (b) imprudence – in accepting an unreasonable risk that those consequences may result, while hoping to be successful in avoiding them.”
Arafat called the mufti Al Husseini “our hero“, while Abbas praised the mufti as “a man whose ways should be emulated by all Palestinian Arabs.” Abbas is the successor of Arafat, who in turn was the successor of Al Huseini: they are all guilty of crimes against humanity in accordance with the Nuremberg Principles, and they are also guilty of crimes against the Jewish people as set out in the Nazis and Nazi Collaborators (Punishment) Law.
Ignorantia juris non excusat ie, ignorance of the law does not excuse, and the Israeli leaders should have been aware of some basic principles of the Israeli Penal Code. The following are some pertinent excerpts:
“CHAPTER SEVEN: NATIONAL SECURITY, FOREIGN RELATIONS AND OFFICIAL SECRETS
Article Two: Treason : Impairment of sovereignty or integrity of the State
97. (a) If a person commits an act liable to impair the sovereignty of the State with the intention to impair that sovereignty, then he is liable to the death penalty or to life imprisonment.
(b) If a person commits an act liable to remove any area from the sovereignty of the State or to place it under the sovereignty of a foreign state with the intention to bring that about, then he is liable to the death penalty or to life imprisonment.”
“CHAPTER EIGHT: OFFENSES AGAINST THE POLITICAL AND SOCIAL ORDER
Article Two: Associations and Assemblies
(2a) a body of persons, incorporated or unincorporated, which in an organized manner, in its by-laws, in its propaganda or in some other manner propagates, incites to or encourages racism, as defined in Article One “A, including propagating, inciting to or encouraging as aforesaid the principles of the Nazis or of the Nazi movement;
CONSIDERING that the Israeli leaders have impaired the sovereignty of the State by removing areas from the State and placing them under the sovereignty of a foreign state, in blatant contravention of Article 2, Chapter 7 of the Penal Code.
CONSIDERING that the Israeli leaders signed and continue to be bound by an illegal agreement with a terrorist organization which propagates and encourages the Nazi movement, in blatant contravention of Article 2, Chapter 8 of the Penal Code.
THEREFORE, the Israeli Oslo architects and followers are not guilty of “stupidity or naivety” but they are rather guilty of the crimes punishable in conformity with the Israeli Penal Code.