President Shimon Peres’ remarks at the opening of the Knesset’s winter session this week outlined the credo of the Israeli Left: peace at any cost.
Yes, it is difficult and there are obstacles, but it is a “supreme moral directive,” and as president, he has a duty to support the peace talks. Throughout the world (including in Israel), his remarks were interpreted as opposing those of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The tunes that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and his representatives sang this week about the “breakdown” of talks and a “dead end” are being backed up by both U.S. President Obama’s policy and Peres’ encouraging words.
Netanyahu’s governments have set clear conditions over the years: recognition of Israel as the national state of the Jewish people, the Jordan Valley under Israeli control, a demilitarized state, cessation of the anti-Israel incitement and recognition of the territorial compromise agreement as the end of the conflict and the end of all demands. All these conditions have to do with Israel’s security and the Jews’ right to their homeland. All this, of course, apart from abandoning the Palestinian demand for a right of return.
As far as security requirements go, we have learned from recent history. Before the 2005 disengagement — the expulsion from Gaza and the destruction the Jewish communities there — then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was asked to guard the Philadelphi Corridor to stop the flow of terrorist arms and ammunition into the Gaza Strip. The Left was opposed.
“Don’t try to frighten us,” they said. “No rockets will be fired at southern Israel.” The people who warned against the Oslo Accords, the disengagement and other inventions from the same well-known source were depicted as fear-mongers. The Left was portrayed as a camp of hope and peace and it marketed its wares on every possible media platform, most of which were reserved solely for the Left.
Did we learn from our experience? Have we not been blinded by the bright lights of long-term propaganda urging peace at any cost because “we don’t have a choice” and because “time is not on our side”? For Netanyahu [and PM Yitzhak Rabin], the Jordan Valley is the Philadelphi Corridor of the east. Of course we cannot rely on foreign forces to protect us. We also learned that from personal experience. That is the source of the demand for demilitarization. Nobody wants to wake up to see an Iranian outpost on the mountaintop, a stone’s throw from major population centers and our international airport. Another thing we need to realize is that without the Israeli army’s help, Hamas would take over what is left of the Palestinian Authority too.
As far as our rights go: Finance Minister Yair Lapid also came out against the demand that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Those opposed to it say that “we do not need Palestinian recognition of our identity.” That is true. But the demand is not for us. It is for them. It is inconceivable that Israel recognize Palestinian sovereignty over part of the Land of Israel while the Palestinians, and through them the entire Arab world, refuse to recognize Jewish sovereignty over part of the land.
This means that even after the final status agreement, the Palestinians will continue to demand sovereignty over all the land of Israel west of the Jordan River. But that is not all. Once that is accomplished, there will be a worldwide propaganda effort to win recognition of Israeli Arabs’ national rights, which is another way of phrasing the idea of Israel as a state of all its citizens as advocated by the New Israel Fund and its collaborators — removing the Jewish component from Israel’s identity.
For roughly a hundred years, every time the idea of partitioning the country came up for negotiation, only one side — the Jews — accepted it. Incidentally, the partition proposal that was accepted in the United Nations on Nov. 29, 1947, spoke of a “Jewish state” and an “Arab state” (!). The refusal to recognize the State of Israel’s Jewishness is part and parcel of the Palestinians’ unrealistic demand for the “right” of return.
We could say that such recognition serves as a litmus test for the other side’s sincerity. The past hundred years have taught us that the conflict between us and the nations of the region is not over territory or “the occupation.” It is over the very fact of our living here as a sovereign nation rather than as dhimmis — protected but subordinate and heavily taxed — under Islam, as we did for 1,400 years. Hence the Arab denial of the Jews’ connection to their land and, of course, the effort to wipe out all traces of Jewish existence on the Temple Mount. Hence, also, our own demand that all incitement against us cease — in other words, that recognition of the Jews’ national rights here become part of internal Palestinian discourse. We cannot play around with this issue. If we do, we will once more be in a hopeless situation, without peace and in a war of ever-increasing intensity.
@ yamit82:
Adios for a while ,Sugar Pie. Take care of yourself
@ Felix Quigley:
I hate to keep explaining to stupid gentiles especially those of the commie Trotsky variety. I know you will never understand but since you raised the canard and the specter (Jew Hatred) I will say it anyway.
First of all anyone can be just as chosen if not more by becoming a Jew. It’s that simple. Of course, it’s better to be chosen than not. Chosen-ness means the greatest imaginable advantage in the most valuable sphere of all, in the transcendental realm. The Torah is explicit: Jews were chosen in order to raise us up (Exodus 20:17). In our prayers, we thank G-d for having chosen us from among all nations and exalting us above all towns. It’s great to be chosen by the biggest authority in the universe.
It’s hard to live chosen. Jews have many more religious obligations than Gentiles (Goyim), and therefore more dangers of transgressing them. Being a good Jew is tremendously more difficult than being a good Gentile. It’s also a fact most Jews don’t live up to their chosen-ness, but we don’t believe that the divine choice was in vain. Name your Empire or civilization in the past 4000 years and then show me them today or their language or religious beliefs? Who speaks classical Greek and Latin today or Phoenician and Egyptian? You want to seen artifacts of ancient Babylon? Buy a shovel go to Iraq and start digging. Your communism didn’t even last 100 years before the societies hosting the ism collapsed under their own weight and stupidity.
There are some very smart anti-Semites, including good writers. Indeed, antisemitism is good for Jews, as it pushes the weak ones to assimilate and the stronger ones to unite. Jew hatred has been a force throughout history keeping Jews in the fold. not all by any measure but apparently enough. We are still here!!!!!
Felix Quigley Said:
Considering the many contribution of the Jewish people to the human race,how can you deny that the Jewish are a chosen people. You may believe that you,yourself are nothing more than an animal, I do not so believe. I believe that man is “a litle above the animals and a little below the Angels”.
Ted my comment to felix disappeared spam blocked. Pls retrieve and post.
Felix Quigley Said:
Felix, Compare your socialism and Judaism, you have nothing to say to us, to tech us or to emulate.
Judaism’s Religious Vision and the Capitalist Ethic, by Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks
“In Judaism, wealth is seen as both a blessing and as a responsibility. The wealthy are expected to share their blessings with others and to be personal role models of social and communal responsibility: Richesse oblige. To a considerable extent, that is what happened in most Jewish communities at most times, and it is what saved Jews from the decadence associated with affluence. In Judaism, there is a difference between ownership and possession. What we have, we do not own; rather, we hold it as God’s trustees. One of the conditions of that trust is that we share what we possess with those in need. Wealth creation goes hand in hand with the alleviation of poverty—just as, in biblical times, landowners were expected to share part of their harvest with the poor. Jewish teaching is best summarized in the famous aphorism of Hillel: “If I am not for myself, who will be? But if I am only for myself, what am I?” Judaism is personal responsibility allied with social responsibility.”
“Poverty, for the rabbis, was a curse, with no saving graces. Poverty does not ennoble; it demeans. Therefore, the poor must be helped to escape from their poverty—through education, training, the creation of employment opportunities, and help in starting their own businesses.
Judaism as a religious vision emphasizes the integrity, freedom, and independence of the individual, as well as his or her responsibilities to society.”
“Individual property rights were therefore as important to the Hebrew Bible as they later were to John Locke. One of the great biblical dramas is Elijah’s challenge to King Ahab, who seizes Naboth’s vineyard (1 Kings 21). Kings did not have the right to appropriate private property. The prophet Micah dreamed of a day in which “every man will sit under his own vine and under his own fig tree and none will make him afraid” (Mic. 4:4). A world of limited government and respect for private property, in which individuals are self-supporting through their own labor, is a world of maximal freedom and human dignity. Judaism’s strong provisions for tzedakah (a word meaning both charity and righteousness) are designed not only to alleviate poverty but also, and primarily, to restore independence. Hence, in Jewish law, the highest form of charity is to find someone a job so that he or she no longer needs to depend on charity.”
“A sustainable market economy depends on certain values that are not created by the market—among them, trust, integrity, honesty to customers, loyalty to employees, industry, reliability, and so on. Other values, no less important in the long run, are strong families, a passion for education, and a sense of responsibility to the community.”
“The market encourages competition, but this needs to be balanced by habits of cooperation; in itself, the market tends to erode those values necessary to its own survival. The market is part, but not the whole, of a free society. A free-market economy tends to be created where there is a strong respect for the individual, a positive value attached to work, and a willingness to value and reward creativity and innovation. It tends not to arise in social systems that are highly collectivist, aristocratic, or conservative.”
“Almost every human civilization has had its periods of growth, maturity, and decline. The free market (and its political counterpart, liberal democracy) may be no exception. The single greatest innovation in Judaism was the Sabbath—one day in seven when the market was closed; there was no work; a limit was set on economic striving. This created a psychological and sociological balance within Jewish life, which saved it from collective burnout. That may be why Judaism—the faith of a tiny and often powerless people—survived, while the great empires did not.”
“Stewardship in Judaism means that we are guardians of the world for the sake of future generations. G-d said to humankind, “See the beauty of the universe which I have created—and all that I created, I made for you. Be careful, therefore, that you do not harm what I have made, for if you do, there will be no one left to restore what you have destroyed.””
“In Judaism human freedom is expressed as much in the ability to stop (Shabbat)as in the ability to work. The Shabbat (Sabbath) is the great counterbalance that protects the market from self-destruction and ensures that wealth creation remains a means and not an end in itself.”
Puppy love,that works for me!!!!!
honeybee Said:
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5115984384/h01EAC01A/
@ yamit82:
miss me, miss me now you gotta kiss me!!!
Don’t forget I sting yawl !!!!!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
when it is completely lost i go back,sometimes a couple of times, and copy the comment that I typed and then send it in an email to Ted stating that it disappeared from spam filter as opposed to moderation
Felix Quigley Said:
Actually you are looking with old eyes. Today’s science, which involves quantum mechanics and the behavior of waves and thought demonstrates that human thought effects the material world.
Furthermore, research into DNA suggests that the DNA program effects more than animal physicality. There is no reason, other than pleading ignorance, to assume that the DNA structure does not contain programming related to non material outcomes. Socialism produced views and MO’s on art and science which have become anachronistic. This is not to say that socialism is irrelevant but rather that the old classic models and views have become inaccurate.Felix Quigley Said:
The world does not appear to be going in that directions. Communism, socialism and central planning have become mixed with free enterprise as hybrids. Capitalism is also encountering problems which will likely cause change moving to more regulation and socialistic restraints. So far the world appears to move toward hybridization rather than revolution, integration rather than polarization, pragmatism rather than dogmatism. I dont think there are any indications of a return to any “pure” forms of capitalism or socialism. The problem is that advanced technology in the hands of greedy individuals or govts can and does lead to abuse of individual liberties.
comment disappeared into cyberspace, spam filter?
Felix Quigley Said:
Actually you are looking with old eyes. Today’s science, which involves quantum mechanics and the behavior of waves and thought demonstrates that human thought effects the material world. Furthermore, research into DNA suggests that the DNA program effects more than animal physicality. There is no reason, other than pleading ignorance, to assume that the DNA structure does not contain programming related to non material outcomes. Socialism produced views and MO’s on art and science which have become anachronistic. This is not to say that socialism is irrelevant but rather that the old classic models and views have become inaccurate.Felix Quigley Said:
The world does not appear to be going in that directions. Communism, socialism and central planning have become mixed with free enterprise as hybrids. Capitalism is also encountering problems which will likely cause change moving to more regulation and socialistic restraints. So far the world appears to move toward hybridization rather than revolution, integration rather than polarization, pragmatism rather than dogmatism. I dont think there are any indications of a return to any “pure” forms of capitalism or socialism. The problem is that advanced technology in the hands of greedy individuals or govts can and does lead to abuse of individual liberties.
@ honeybee:
Where are you????
@ Ted Belman:
Doesn’t always work some are just lost.
Comment isn’t lost. Just click on the back arrow and you will go back to the comment and then do the math.
Can you fix loosing your post if you forgot the CAPTCHA, pressed POST COMMENT button and then go back to the comment page?
A techie has been working on Israpunditcleaning up some loose ends. Just yesterday I started have verious trouble as the site gets temporarily hung up. My problems are continuing today. The editor that is mal-functioning probably is one of the symptoms.
Ted your Editor is not responding.. Essentially inoperative.
@ David Chase:
The core of the conflict is pan Islamism and a sub-context of pan Arabism. What it’s not and never has been is a conflict over territory in a National sense.
The world has bought into the the Arab and Palis narrative because it’s a simple and basically not complex, the Jews bought into it because they are deathly afraid of moving the plane of the conflict from narrow nationalism and territory to what they perceive as an unwinnable religious one pitting, a few million Jews against 1.3-6 billion Muslims and more directly against 350 million Arabs in the region.
A religious war is the worst kind of wars based on history, they are the most bloody and never really end. A war fought for nationalist aspirations and over territory is according to History resolvable based on the relative Balance of power between the antagonists. It always holds out the hope.
The alternatives for our leaders and most of our people are beyond pessimism.
@ yamit82</
Someone ought to point out to Abbas that the claim of being "very earnest" only doesm't hold
water if all you're doing is allegedly "trying" Doesn't anybody think to ask him what evidence he can give to prove he's trying besides the continual demand for concessions. If they can't agree to an "end of conflict" by accepting Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people then there's no sign of any kind of Arab teshuva. If the Arabs claim that the recognition as a Jewish state doesn't matter- that we can call ourselves what we want- then there's no true evidence that they are negotiating "very earnestly" Anybody can claim that they are trying but if an opportunity comes to actually prove it and they pass it up then there really is no true evidence. Why don't we ask Abbas that if it doesn't matter why not just agree to it since that certainly doesn't require forfeiting anything concrete. How do you sign an end-of-conflict agreement when one side doesn't accept you. It means the conflict is not really over. We might throw in that the Palestinians agreed to change their charter 20 years ago calling for Israel's destruction. Doing that also might be a good start and they already agreed to it. I never understood why that slipped by. You can point it out to Obama also
Bert
”
@ sonti:
The reason why Israel remains paralyzed in the face of mortal danger was explained by Rabbi Meir Kahane many years ago.
http://www.kahanetzadak.com/KT/Writings/Entries/1984/11/1_Isolation.html
In essence it is because our Jewish leaders have NO faith in G-d and thus they can only fear man, and man always betrays them.
”
Furthermore Jews must at last begin to see the truth…which is that rather than being “chosen” they are part of humanity, and that human beings are no more than animals, part of the animal and vegetable world, the real world. That is we humans, and every Jew that ever lived, is an animal, an animal with a larger brain, and that humans did not get that brain by choice, but rather much more by accident. Now humans with our large brains under capitalism will destroy the world in following the profit motive, and under socialist, that is the socialist DICTATORSHIP of the proletariat, will save the world and create a real heaven on earth.
I repeat that there is no alternative at all to correct political leadership, and this means a correct analysis and perspective on the deep, complicated and worrying issues connected with the DECLINE OF CAPITALISM.
Judaism simply does not have ANY answers whatsoever to this decline of capitalism with its attendant Fascism, which if capitalism remains is TOTALLY inevitable.
For jews and for bourgeois Zionists as opposed to revolutionary socialist supporters of the Jewish Homeland the thing that they cannot deal with, make an analysis of, is the nazi Holocaust.
This came out of Fascism, as well as out of Antisemitism.
The position of some really the most politically bankrupt religious Jews is in the end always to say that the God was responsable too for the Holocaust, in other words it was a good thing, because it helped to créate Israel. Yamit82 has argued that on this very site so I am not making anything up here.
By all means be religious Jews if you want, but do not thereby attack any other person who has got political views.
The people with the clearest ideas in the world today are going to be dialectical materialists, that means Trotskyists.
The whole ideology of Judaism and indeed of bourgeois Zionism just simply cannot lead except into the jaws of another Holocaust. That pretty well defines Yamit 82 and his horrific gang of hangers on (clique if ever there was a clique) and just about every single position he has taken up on Israpundit
yamit82 Said:
Sharon got something right
@ sonti:
The reason why Israel remains paralyzed in the face of mortal danger was explained by Rabbi Meir Kahane many years ago.
http://www.kahanetzadak.com/KT/Writings/Entries/1984/11/1_Isolation.html
In essence it is because our Jewish leaders have NO faith in G-d and thus they can only fear man, and man always betrays them.
European exodus?
By JPOST EDITORIAL
10/17/2013 21:04
Israel should prepare both operationally and conceptually to absorb thousands of European Jews.
Jews are being made to feel increasingly unwelcome in Europe. Israel’s policy-makers must begin preparing for an influx of European Jews who have come to the realization that the “renaissance” of European Jewry after the Holocaust is a false hope. That seems to be the operative conclusion of a major survey of European Jewry conducted by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights.
The full report, based on a survey of 5,100 Jews living in France, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, Italy, Hungary, Romania and Latvia that began in September 2012 and ended last month, will be presented next month in Vilnius.
But JTA obtained some preliminary results.
A quarter of respondents said they avoided visiting visibly Jewish places and wearing visibly Jewish symbols such as a yarmulke for fear of anti-Semitism. The numbers were higher in Sweden, France and Belgium where 49 percent, 40% and 36%, respectively, said they did.
In Hungary, 91% of respondents said anti-Semitism has increased in the past five years. That figure was 88% in France, 87% in Belgium and 80% in Sweden. In Germany, Italy and Britain, some 60% identified a growth in anti- Semitism, compared to 39% in Latvia.
Nor are Jews’ impressions simple paranoia. According to a 2011 study the Bielefeld University undertook on behalf of the Friedrich Ebert Foundation, more than 40% of citizens 16 years and older in seven EU countries agree with the statement that Israel is carrying out “a war of extermination” against Palestinians. And since visibly identifiable Jews are connected with Israel, an astounding number of Europeans feel a tremendous amount of opprobrium for anything connected to Israel.
In addition, Europeans have launched an attack on Jewish – and Muslim – ritual practices such as circumcision and ritual slaughter. A poll for the German Focus magazine taken after a Cologne court ruled that circumcision was prohibited because it constituted “physical harm against newborn babies” found that 56% of those surveyed thought the judgment was right, compared with 35% who were against the ruling and 10% undecided. And a poll commissioned by Britain’s Jewish Chronicle and published in March found that 38% of the British population favored a ban on “male circumcision for religious reasons,” while 35% were against a ban and 27% were undecided.
Unsurprisingly, according to the EU survey, in three of the nine states surveyed – Belgium, France and Hungary – between 40% and 50% of respondents said they had considered emigrating because they did not feel safe there.
Many European Jews, obviously, intend to stay put.
Some may plan to relocate inside Europe to cities with larger Jewish populations where they feel safer.
Another very real and viable option, however, is relocation to Israel. Unfortunately, according to a Jewish People Policy Institute assessment for 2011-2012, there seems to be no Israeli political determination to set up appropriate structures to ease the professional and educational integration of new immigrants from non-Russian-speaking European countries.
The JPPI’s Dov Maimon has recommended a few steps to facilitate European Jewry’s aliya, which include: encouraging organizations like the mostly North American-focused Nefesh B’Nefesh and the French AMI (Alya & Meilleure Intégration) to expand their activities; streamlining the process of recognizing foreign degrees, professional licenses and the opening of small or medium businesses; making military enlistment regulations more flexible.
And as writer Hillel Halkin recently pointed out in an essay that appeared on the Internet site Mosaic, attracting European Jewry depends, ironically, on Israel becoming a more European country – “more soundly and efficiently run, more economically affordable, more environmentally caring, more peaceful, more livable.”
Our political leaders might want to refrain from making public declarations calling on Europe’s Jews to abandon ship. In 2004, president Jacques Chirac attacked prime minister Ariel Sharon for calling France the home of “the wildest anti-Semitism” and for French Jewry to emigrate “as early as possible.”
Nevertheless, Israel should prepare both operationally and conceptually to absorb thousands of European Jews.
Their exodus would mark Europe’s failure to learn the lessons of the Holocaust, but it would also be a tremendous boon to the Jewish state.
Obama’s potential release of $12bn of frozen Iranian assets would be followed by $35 billion from Europe
DEBKAfile Special Report October 18, 2013, 6:35 PM (IDT)
yamit82 Said:
As long as you don’t say yawl
All well and good – BUT why the heck doesn’t Israel attack Iran without more ado! I am sick and tired of Bibi’s talk – ACT NOW for goodness sake. The news is terrible. The US and EU are getting ready to suck up to Iran !!!
Ex-spy boss rails against Turkey’s reported betrayal of Mossad spy ring in Iran
Danny Yatom, former Mossad head, intimates Tehran may have executed Iranian assets whose cover was blown by Ankara
Israel and the new Munich
By CAROLINE B. GLICK
The Iranians have given no indication that they would be willing to suspend all uranium enrichment.
Netanyahu makes a case for a preemptive strike
In Yom Kippur War anniversary speech, prime minister suggests that inaction on Iran is costlier than international opprobrium
yamit82 Said:
May I join you,boys: http://youtu.be/Lot27raJ6uw
Iran FM: Israel seeks to undermine nuclear talks
Israel’s ‘frustration and warmongering’ will likely disturb efforts to strike nuke deal, Zarif says; French FM warns it’s ‘too early to draw conclusions’ on Iran’s cooperation
Germany urges settlement ‘restraint,’ pledges aid to PA
Abbas meets with Merkel in Berlin, says Palestinians conducting talks with Israel ‘very earnestly’
Deutschland Leckt mich am Arsch euch!!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
Amen, brah! I can’t wait til the arch-fiend to the Jewish people meets Rabin and Arafat in hell! I hope he packs lightly for the trip – I hear its hot there.
Yair Lapid doesn’t seem to understand the Arab mindset.
He who wants peace at any price will wind up with neither security nor peace.
The Arabs are not prepared to make peace – those who chase the delusion, such as Shimon Peres, will go to their graves disappointed.
There will be no peace with the Arabs in our lifetime and no amount of Jewish goodwill or flexibility will alter their intransigence! No one gives up their hearts for peace.
As far as the Jewish people are concerned, they should never surrender their rights in their ancient homeland for Arab words that have no lasting value.
My fantasy: Dancing on Peres’ Grave, right now!!!!!
White House Weighs Easing Iran Sanctions’ Bite With Slow Release of Assets For nothing in return!!!!
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration, in the wake of a promising first round of nuclear diplomacy with Iran, is weighing a proposal to ease the pain of sanctions on Tehran by offering it access to billions of dollars in frozen funds if the Iranian government takes specific steps to curb its nuclear program, a senior administration official said Thursday.