Agreements with the Vatican are capitulation to their plans for the Old City and the Temple Mount – or should we say the “Holy Basin”.
A long-awaited agreement between the Vatican and Israel appears to be near finality.
The two main points revolve around the Church’s requests to build two centers in Israel: a church in a section of the Caesaria National Park where a site dedicated to Paul once stood, and the use of a plot on Mount Zion in Jerusalem.
The structure on Mt. Zion, the highest point of Jerusalem, is known as the Cenacle, where the Last Supper is believed to have taken place, and according to the deal which will be signed in the coming months, it will become open to Catholic worship once again.
The Vatican asks Israel to allow the Church to build a passageway through the Diaspora Yeshiva, which takes care of the area known as David’s Tomb, and to enable thousands of Christian worshipers to access the Last Supper Room more easily .
The area has strategic value, since it is a few hundred yards from the Temple Mount, so the Catholic Church will turn it into the international center for Catholics all around the world.
As the New Sanhedrin stated in 2009, those in the Vatican who initiated the concept of the “Holy Basin”, which is pivotal in this agreement, intended to remove exclusive Jewish sovereignty from the Temple Mount and the Old City and – in effect – aimed at “the total removal of Jewish sovereignty”.
Father Athanasius Macora, secretary of a Franciscan commission monitoring holy sites, declared that “Franciscan control of the Last Supper room would open the site to regular Christian prayer services, Masses and other ceremonies”. Now the Franciscans are permitted to have a mass only twice a year: on the day of Pentecost and on the Holy Thursday. Christian pilgrim groups have there a short silent prayer when visiting.
Recently Father Peter Stravinskas told Vatican Radio: “It is unfortunate that this site of the Lord’s last supper is not accessible to Christians for worship. It is controlled by the Israeli civil authorities. In fact when Pope John Paul went to Jerusalem there had to be a special permission for him to be able to celebrate mass in the Cenacle. There is some talk now, of course, that perhaps there’s a negotiation going on in order to return the Cenacle to the care of the Church”.
That’s why the Franciscans, who will benefit from Israel-Vatican deal, claim the title of “Guardian of Mount Zion”. Pope Francis is very close to this order, which established political links with the PLO in Jerusalem. In his first significant appointment to the Roman Curia, Pope Francis has taken the highly unusual step of naming the actual head of the Franciscan order, Father Jose Rodriguez Carballo, as Secretary of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Institutes of Consecrated life.
Born in Lodoselo, Spain, Carballo was ordained priest in Jerusalem in 1977.
We have to remember that in 2002, the “Franciscan Custody of the Holy Land” criticized the demand by the U.S. Congress that Jerusalem be recognized as the capital of Israel, calling it “a decision that does not respect Israeli-Palestinian peace talks”.
Those who will be in charge of the Cenacle on Mount Zion have been among the most ardent partisans of a Palestinian Arab State.
In 2000, before the suicidal Camp David talks, Yasser Arafat met Islamic and Christian clergymen at his offices in Ramallah to get their backing for Arab sovereignty over Jerusalem. Among the clergymen who attended the meeting were Diodoros I, Patriarch of the Greek Orthodox Church, Torkom II, patriarch of the Armenian Orthodox Church, Catholic Patriarch Michel Sabbah and officials from the Custody of the Holy Land. This is the same order which will be in charge of the Mount Zion structure.
All of the Christian churches currently standing in Jerusalem are seen as the product of the destruction of the Jewish people, their dispossession and exile. It is the Christian exile which Christianity glorifies in as being everlasting.
There is the risk that the new church on Mount Zion will be used to foment a political war on the rest of the Jewish Jerusalem.
The very spirit of Israel’s capitulation to the Vatican lies in the Franciscans order’s definition of Mount Zion: “The place that is traditionally known as the place of the Last Supper and of the bestowing of the gift of the Holy Spirit is today occupied by a Yeshiva or Jewish religious school”.
Will Israel dismantle this “occupation” as it did in Gush Katif? In 2005, while the synagogue of Netzarim was burned by Arab terrorists, the Catholic Church stood silent despite Israeli rabbis’ pleas to condemn the torching.
The writer, an Italian journalist with Il Foglio, writes a twice-weekly column for Arutz Sheva. He is the author of the book “A New Shoah”, that researched the personal stories of Israel’s terror victims, published by Encounter. His writing has appeared in publications, such as the Wall Street Journal, Frontpage and Commentary. He is at work on a book about the Vatican and Israel.
yamit82 Said:
Yamit, the Jeremiah passage refers to obedience to God, not getting wrapped up in temple worship. Obedience to God makes a person want to perform good deeds. Your ‘inexactness’ may be coming through on understanding this. You mentioned a woman with someone at a well but left out a very telling part…
The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.”
J said to her, “I who speak to you am He.” Jn 4:25-26
The questions you asked about what the voice from heaven meant has to do with submission not equality.
..and no, Casper the friendly ghost wasn’t the one who rolled the stone or was it gravity. Maybe you can figure out ‘why’ the stone was rolled.
alanmos Said:
Since nothing especially from Jewish sources is written about your deity during his supposed time on earth but only hearsay many year even hundreds of years after the supposed fact, that is not historical evidence or accuracy. Such evidence in any court of law would be thrown out with a hearty laughter.
None of the early christian writers believed in J (yeshu’s) divinity. That was decided at the council of Nicaea by a narrow vote.
Re: Your links to our Talmud’s ref to the christian yeshu? There is none!!!!!
Read: The Jesus Narrative In The Talmud
alanmos Said:
Sorry for the typo and my inexactness.
Should read: “According to christian mythology; J (yeshu) left no writings of his own but christians credit his brother james as leaving writings. Should we infer that your messiah and g-d on a stick was an unlettered illiterate?
Matthew 3:17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
The truth shall set you free: “John 14:28
“…I [Jesus] go unto the Father, for my father is greater than I.” Hmmmmm. Got one right.
alanmos Said:
CASPER THE FRIENDLY GHOST???
@ alanmos:
Are you still trolling around this site?
Thought I told you to go convert Muslims? 🙂
You Cowards are too afraid!!!! Chickens 😉
In Jeremiah’s seventh chapter, the prophet warns his people not to place their hopes on blood sacrifices or look to The Temple of the Lord to save them. Jeremiah proclaims that these institutions cannot deliver them from their brazen sins. Rather, they must turn away from idolatry, and return to G-d by keeping the commandments.
There is no christian voice in Jeremiah’s epoch message on atonement.
The seventh chapter of Jeremiah stands as a glaring indictment against the Church’s most cherished creeds.
(My) most fervent hope is that the Muzies will chop all missionary’s heads off, an act the Jews should seriously consider in the Land of Israel and I believe someday will.
Get lost missionary troll, this is no place for your pagan messages to be heard or read.
alanmos Said:
Gravity??????????
yamit82 Said:
Yamit, these comments are so erroneous it’s a puzzle whether you are actually void of the facts or that you know it’s wrong and you’re purpose in writing this is to deceive the unwary reader. Any member of the groups you mentioned would never want to be confronted by the evidence McDowell presents and some who have has resulted in their departure from their error to the Truth.
If you’re interested in historical evidence look here as a start http://www.nelsonprice.com/early-secular-writings-regarding-christ/
If He didn’t exist He has no brother but since you attribute a brother of His than He existed or else you’re in violation of the law of non-contradiction. He has no writings of His own yet no one has been more written about in all of history. An illiterate ignoramus you write, no, more like the wisest of all time. Even Solomon wrote of Him.
You mentioned earlier about the Truth setting you free. A good question for you and all of us to answer is, ‘Who rolled the stone?’ Answer if you can.
Bill Narvey Said:
Is that cross your carring heavy? Sweety!!!!!!!!!!
Yamit, you expect a mea culpa from me? You are the one who owes me, but I don’t ask that of you, knowing you are not one to give it.
Your memory is failing Yamit, there have been over the past many years, several times each of us conceded to the other because of a superior argument, but you are right, neither of us usually back off our positions. The difference is that you resort to name calling and a variety of ad hominem attacks as you have again. You have repeatedly proven that you have a very short fuse.
That matter aside, I did in my comment #48 ask you a number of simple and sincere questions that I still hope you will oblige me with answers. I asked them not to argue, but wanted to know how you came to, rationalized and justfied your statements. Call it curiosity, which all it really is.
Once you calm down, I think you will see that my questions of you in #48 were fair and reasonable and with that please provide me with your fair and reasoned reply
yamit82 Said:
Get a rope,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
honeybee Said:
Used to be fun but reached a peak a few years ago and then he disappeared to write letters. Now he is back and instead of mea culpa, he is spoutig the same drivel he was then and expecting a different result and reaction?
He should be saying “Tried That, Done That” and Yamit you were right.
In 7 years of Narvey, Never has he admitted once, he was wrong and in error. I can’t recall even 1 Time.
Bill Narvey Said:
No you’re not. You just enjoy verbal jousts… and based on past experience you are not discriminating with whom you choose to joust with. I have seen you defend the most vile characters because either they agreed with you or where happy to enter into lengthy circular debates with you.
I have known for years you are a liberal leftist posing as a middle of the road moderate on this blog probably to deflect the flack if you said what you really believed.
Problem with you is you ask questions not to learn anything but to keep yourself relevant and involved. In all the years and maybe thousands of comments between us and all your questions answered, you are still mired in the muck of your original positions.
That indicates you are as closed minded and obtuse as our fundamentalist christian enemies.
There is nothing I can add more than all those conversations of the past, which you seemed to have ignored.
alanmos Said:
The claims of “Josh McDowell” Have been made equally by Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, Buddhists, Hindus and even atheists. His opinions are solely his, not based on any verifiable historical credible facts except the NT and the later church fathers writings. None outside of that closed forum who spoke and wrote with a clear agenda.
There is no historical evidence that your man-god ever existed. Where is his actually writings? How come we have supposedly the attributed writings of the brother James but not the deity himself? Is your god an illiterate ignoramus?
Bill Narvey Said:
He enjoys banging YOUR head aainst the wall!!!!!!!!!!Sugar
alanmos Said:
Your answer was disingenuous and insulting. You asked specific questions of me to which I supplied to you and in context that which you requested. Modern Hebrew grammatical rules follow closely the same biblical Hebrew rules. You were not just curious about knowledge of Hebrew Grammar you were trying to to Play christian catch you, based on your criminal mis-translation and interpretation of Isiah 53.
(1) The Gospels teach that yeshu appeared to the disciples after his resurrection. it’s unclear, however, whether those appearances took place in Jerusalem or in the Galilee (or at both locales). According to my reading, the Galilean accounts seem to rule out prior Jerusalem appearances. Where did J (yeshu) actually appear? If he appeared in Jerusalem, how should we read the Galilean accounts?
(2) I find the genealogy of J (yeshu) provided by the gospels confusing. Who was J (yeshu’s) paternal grandfather? (I notice that Matthew says that his grandfather was Jacob, but Luke says it was Heli). Also, I notice that Matthew declares that J (yeshu) was separated from King David by only twenty-eight generations, but Luke’s list shows a forty-three generation separation. What does this contradiction mean?
(3) The genealogical line linking J (yeshu) and King David seems to pass through through the father of yeshu. But since J (yeshu) was the product of a virgin conception, then he does not share in his father’s Davidic ancestry. How is J (yeshu) a descendent of David?
The material (links) I gave you addressed those points directly and by one far more knowledgeable than myself and I believe even ShyGuy.
In Jeremiah’s seventh chapter, the prophet warns his people not to place their hopes on blood sacrifices or look to The Temple of the Lord to save them. Jeremiah proclaims that these institutions cannot deliver them from their brazen sins. Rather, they must turn away from idolatry, and return to G-d by keeping the commandments.
There is no Christian voice in Jeremiah’s epoch message on atonement.
The seventh chapter of Jeremiah stands as a glaring indictment against the Church’s most cherished creeds.
For example, according to Christian doctrine, there is nothing man can do to merit salvation through his own “works” or repentance. Atonement, Christendom argues, can only be achieved through the shedding of innocent blood. Throughout the seventh chapter of Jeremiah, however, the prophet rebukes this aberrant teaching. G-d desires repentance alone for man’s grievous sins, not blood sacrifices, Jeremiah loudly declares.
Get lost missionary. you have nothing to say or offer us.
Honeybee, if you are right about Yamit only trying to test my mettle, he has known for years my mettle is just fine. That he persists, might suggest he enjoys banging his head against the wall.
I am only interested in civil, informed and reasoned discussion and debate.
yamit82 Said:
There is a program on Mundo Fox,[Spanish] ch 33, Direct TV about the life of Queen Ester.