PM, Merkel ‘agree to disagree’ on settlements

I am very pleased that Bibi said “Israel will keep the area (E-1) under any future peace deal in any case.” He also said at another time “The Palestinians want a state but not peace” I love it.

YNET

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is brushing off international criticism over a planned new settlement project near Jerusalem, saying Israel will keep the area under any future peace deal in any case.

Israel’s plans to build 3,000 new settler homes in the corridor near Jerusalem triggered sharp criticism in Europe. Palestinians say that would make it impossible for them to establish a viable state in the West Bank.

After meeting German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Thursday, Netanyahu said “most governments who have looked at these proposals over the years including the Palestinians themselves … understand that these blocs … are going to be part of Israel in a final political settlement of peace.”

“We agreed that we disagree on this,” Merkel said. “We in Germany believe the work on a two-state solution must be continued … we must keep trying to come to negotiations and one-sided moves should be avoided,” she added.

The two had dinner together on Wednesday evening and were hosting talks, along with most of their Cabinet ministers, Thursday morning.

The meeting of the two governments is an annual tradition and is generally amicable but comes at a time when both sides have expressed displeasure with one another’s recent political moves.

‘We haven’t lost Europe’
The unusually tense build-up to Netanyahu’s long-planned trip to Germany, one of Israel’s closest allies in Europe, reflected the increasing displeasure in Europe at his government’s seeming intransigence.

Six friendly European countries summoned the local Israeli ambassadors to file protests, and the US has condemned the latest settlement plans. On Wednesday, the Palestinians asked the UN Security Council to call on Israel to halt the planned construction.

In an interview with German newspaper Die Welt published on Wednesday, Netanyahu said that he “was disappointed, as were many people in Israel, by the German vote in the UN” on Palestinian statehood.

“I took note of this,” Merkel said at the two leaders’ joint news conference at which she stressed anew Germany’s commitment to Israel’s security.

“We did not take the vote, and our position, lightly,” Merkel said. “We are against unilateral measures, so we didn’t vote yes – that was very carefully considered. On the other hand, there is a certain amount of movement on the recognition of two states, which at many points in time we didn’t have with the Palestinians.”

Netanyahu stressed that despite the vote, Germany and other European countries have been among Israel’s strongest allies and remain committed to helping ensure its security.

“I don’t think that we lost Europe,” he said of the vote.

December 6, 2012 | 74 Comments »

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24 Comments / 74 Comments

  1. David Chase Said:

    We are back to pre-square one and we just saw into the future

    The question is how will that future play out. Will the opportunity of failed Oslo be grasped to change paradigms or will it only be used as a negotiating tactic to get a little more land and continue stalling? Where it can go and where it will go are two different things(also the speed of going there). So far BB appears only to be “punishing” and “asserting” a little bit. My wager is that there will be no major change in paradigms short term but that under the table tactics will continued to be used to keep stalling a final solution, to keep Hamas and west bank split, move hamas towards egypt and west bank arabs towards jordan, grab a little more land to firm out possible future boundaries,neutralize hezbullah and Iran(perhaps in concert with Sunnis). The question is also: how does the Levy report fit into future plans, does it portend greater implications? After all it didn’t arrive out of nowhere.

  2. @ Bernard Ross:

    Yes, you are right. Not just the Palestinians but the internationals also and not just Oslo but everything that followed. I agree. We are back to pre-square one and we just saw into the future

  3. David Chase Said:

    then there will nothing to hold us back from asserting our rights

    Bingo, old agreements dead.
    David Chase Said:

    The priority should be to make clear this case showing how the Palestinians have broken the agreement. .. We need to start playing offense.

    Not only the Pals but also the internationals: all those who guaranteed Oslo, and the Road Map, broke their agreements. In my opinion, the approach should be

    Israel cannot negotiate, or make agreements with those who just broke their last agreement and Israel cannot accept guarantees from those that just broke their guarantees. Israel will not accept pressure to observe agreements broken by others. Those who desire peace should not have destroyed the only agreement geared to that purpose

    Therefore, confidence and trust is gone, everything must be re-assessed(needing commissions, studies,etc).

  4. @ Bernard Ross:
    I know Oslo has fallen apart. Our first job is to prove and make clear that fact to those who still hold us to it. My “if” statement was really rhetorical. I probably should have said “Now that Oslo has fallen apart”…. If the last argument of the international community is that we are violating Oslo no longer holds because it becomes clear that “Oslo IS dead”, then there will nothing to hold us back from asserting our rights-Oslo, Geneva convention etc. The priority should be to make clear this case showing how the Palestinians have broken the agreement. Every ambassador,diplomat, minister etc needs to do this whenever interacting with the international community. We need to start playing offense.

  5. @ Canadian Otter:

    “Europeans boycotting Jews – again – is the issue that raises concern and the main point of the article. Not the Israeli loss of European markets and profits.”

    Yes, I noticed that, Otter.

    It just seemed to me, though, that ‘Europeans are gonna do what Europeans are gonna do’; so, not very much that comes out of there actually surprises me

    — even (or maybe especially) when it harkens back to the 30’s.

    I’m focused more on seizing opportunities to make something good of it, “af al pi” — in spite of everything.

  6. @ Michael Devolin:

    “Don’t see why this shouldn’t be taken as an opportunity to develop other markets.”

    “Good point, Dweller. As they say, ‘The best revenge is to live a good life’.”

    Well, yes, there’s that too, of course.

    But beyond the matter of poking a finger in Europe’s eye by becoming successful in spite of them, there is the vital necessity that Israel maintain & strengthen her independence — military, political, AND economic

    — that she maximize her freedom of option by not being tied to any other interest or group of interests.

  7. @ dweller:
    Europeans boycotting Jews – again – is the issue that raises concern and the main point of the article. Not the Israeli loss of European markets and profits.

  8. @ the phoenix:

    “defragmentation work in full progress…..”

    No idea what you said. Define: “defragmentation” as you use it here.

    “(With an amused smile) yes dweller, your mastery of the English language… Plain awesome, man! Kinda’ groovy!”

    We all are who we are, phoenix.

    Do I complain — or make backhanded remarks — about how you write?

    The way I write is the way I write.

    I wasn’t aware that communicating in complete sentences had become a crime

    — you’d feel more comfortable if I wrote in monosyllables & fractured syntax?

    “dweller….you are VERY predictable.”

    The rules of English grammar have been standardized for a few centuries, phoenix; the idea is precisely to MAKE writing “predictable.”

    — S-F-W?

    “[Y]our incredible insight into people and what makes them tick (or not) is just awesome!”

    I’m sorry that you think I’m just being stuffy & egotistically didactic; but if you choose to believe that, then you’ll just have to believe it until you choose to believe something else. I’ll not apologize for who I am.

    Look phoenix, we all play the same games; different orders & combinations & proportions perhaps, but the principles are constant.

    — See thru your own & you’ve seen thru everybody‘s.

    If you honestly don’t see the RELEVANCE of that to the struggle we face on behalf of Israel, well I can’t help that.

    And if you honestly don’t WANT to see relevance either, I can’t help that either

    — I allow myself to hope that, in time, you will.

    But then again, I don’t write strictly to you alone when I answer your remark.

    There are other readers who may not comment, but who nonetheless do not ignore the discussion; it’s a mistake to overlook them.

    — Any time you post (anywhere), you are speaking to more than just the specific poster to whom you are responding.

  9. “I probably spend WAY less time online than virtually any of the other regular posters on this board.”

    I could possibly be a contender for you in that regard, Dweller. I’m cutting dead elm firewood so as to preserve the firewood I cut this summer (gives it more time to dry), and then my kids threaten to kill me if I take too long on the computer (we have only one), so I find I have little time on the computer. But I think it’s a good thing in a way: it gives me less time to piss somebody off on this board. LOL “He who rolls a stone…”

    “Don’t see why this shouldn’t be taken as an opportunity to develop other markets.”

    Good point, Dweller. As they say, “The best revenge is to live a good life.”

  10. @ dweller:
    …as expected ….

    “i have read many of your comments and exchanges… you come here to this forum NOT TO OFFER A SOLUTION OR SOLIDARITY…”

    If that’s your considered opinion, then obviously you haven’t read enough of my comments & exchanges.

    “… but to prove how ‘zen’ and enlightened and oh..so cool calm and collected and never getting your feathers ruffled you are…”

    defragmentation work in full progress…..
    (With an amazed smile)yes dweller, your mastery of the English language, your incredible insight into people and what makes them tick (or not) is just awesome!
    Plain awesome, man! Kinda’ groovy!
    🙂
    dweller….you are VERY predictable.

  11. @ Canadian Otter:

    “How Europe Boycotts Israel Goods”

    Don’t see why this shouldn’t be taken as an opportunity to develop other markets.

    — It’s not as if Europe is all there is. There’s much of Asia, and both of the Americas, etc.

    From the Arutz Sheva article you linked:

    “SodaStream produces home devices for carbonation of water and soft drinks. Its products, also known under the brand name Soda Club, are manufactured in the industrial zone of Ma’ale Adumim.”

    Both Sean Hannity & Mark Levin advertise SodaStream on their national USA syndicated daily radio broadcasts (and I think Hannity runs the ad on his daily Fox News Cable show as well). Maybe Michael Savage too.

    And if Europe has no use for J/S produce, cosmetics, textiles &toys

    — then I guess they have no use for Israeli electronics & cybernetic tzchatchkes either, right?

  12. @ yamit82:

    “He has on several occasions explained his purpose here. [dweller] is a seed planter of his ideas…”

    Astonishing. It’s hard to believe that anybody could be quite so amazingly obtuse as you sound whenever you are relating something I’ve reputedly said.

    Yet there’s simply no denying that you are largely as clueless about me today as you were when I first said what you have so thoroughly distorted in the above blockquote.

    What I SAID (on indeed several occasions) is that I plant my seeds, yes.

    — But that was an assessment of myself generally. Did NOT say that this was some special purpose of my presence here on this blogsite, as distinct from elsewhere.

    It’s simply who I am, WHEREVER I am (and for which I make no apology).

    But then, the inescapable fact is that, for better or for worse, EVERYBODY is constantly planting his seeds — whether he intends to or not — and whether he is conscious of it or not.

    “…and [is] a propagandist for his messiah.”

    No, that is patently un-true. I’ve never been a proselytizer.

    And YOU (of all people), Yamit, can HARDLY go throwing that jacket on ME.

    I’m surely always ready & willing to answer a specific question, yes — or to offer a correction to what appears to be a flagrant misconception.

    But a brief look thru our earlier exchanges leaves no doubt WHATSOEVER that you moved heaven & earth to get me to open up on the matter.

    The TRUTH is that the subject of “[my] Messiah” is something that’s lodged in your consciousness, Yamit, like a foxtail in a dog’s ear

    — the more he tosses his head from side to side, the deeper it implants itself

    inexorably

    till his master reaches in & and pulls it out.

    In the comments to “Muslim Demographics,” for example [2008], you went on poking around for responses from me on the subject for something like 260+ posts before letting it close down. (There was no automatic 10-day posting period back then; postings in those days would continue as long as there was evident interest.)

    “[dweller] is a born again Messianic ‘Johnny Appleseed’.”

    Nope, wrong again.

    “Born-again” is somebody else’s lingo, not mine; I’ve never used it, anywhere.

    What’s more, from all I can see, most of those who DO use the term, “Born-Again,” are ESSENTIALLY fooled again.

    A “Born-Again” turkey is still a turkey — and most people, Jewish OR soi-disant ‘Christian,’ are turkeys of one stripe or another

    — PresentCompany not excepted.

  13. @ yamit82:

    “You are so full of yourself it stinks all the way here.”

    If you can’t handle the stink, you might wanna cut back on the hummus. (Legumes, y’know; hoo-hah!)

    Like it says in the words to the song, “You are the WIND beneath my wings. . . .”

    “You wouldn’t know a commie if he landed on your head.”

    I once knew a whole truckload of ’em, Pancho — and I KNOW when one is trying to land on my head.

    You’re forgetting some of my history.

    I knew plenty of CPUSA types. Fought ’em tooth & nail back then too.

    — And I’m THOROUGHLY acquainted with HOW they fight. Their rhetorical devices are unmistakable.

    Max is gulling us, fella.

    — You heard it here first.

    “…like you haven’t in all this time recognized who our friend ‘Freyman’ really is…He goes by many names like ‘Lois lane’ etc.”

    Oh, wake up, Yamit. It doesn’t matter whether “Freyman” OR “Lois Lane” is or isn’t P-e-s-k-i-n — because at this point ‘neither’ of ‘them’ is sowing confusion, playing us against each other by using each other’s names, etc.

    The only thing ‘either’ of ‘them’ is doing on this site these days is drawing heat.

    (If ‘they’ eventually start in on H_P’s modus operandi, that will be another matter to consider — but it’s not happening now. Not with ‘them’ anyway.)

    “[Y]ou are so obtuse it went by the vacuum above your shoulders or because you agree with his positions and enjoy the argument for it’s own sake you keep it to yourself. Anyone who has been here for more than a couple of years knows or should have recognized the NUT.”

    Grow up, Yamit.

    Remember too that IF Mr Freyman is in fact an ‘Islamofascist,’ that P-e-s-k-i-n — whatever his weaknesses, shortcomings & shticklakh — was never THAT.

    He leaned left, he had a defeatist attitude in re Israel, and he had a passel of sad & unattractive personal monkeys on his back — but an ‘Islamofascist’? — Get real.

    If Freyman & Lois are actually coordinated parts of a concerted move some troll is putting on this blogsite

    — then my guess is that they are BOTH diversions from the real trouble center.

    One man’s opinion, of course.

  14. @ Max:

    “But if so, you [Max] couldn’t’ve known [your “commie” friends] very well — if you see their style in me. You see, I’ve no use for jackboots; they pinch my feet.”

    “You simply don’t know who you are.”

    That’s okay, Max. You see, I do know who YOU are.

    — And that’s what’s frosting your coffee.

    “If you use the same tactics as jackboots it makes you a jackboot…”

    It certainly does, Max.

    Couldn’t’ve said it better myself.

    “Mr. Smarmy show-me-the-evidence when the ‘evidence’ is in your face.”

    If the evidence is so readily available, you should have no trouble SHOWING us some of it. So, excerpt the specific remarks and prove your point.

    Come on, tough guy — if you’ve got it, pull it out & rub my nose in it.

    — Put up or shut up.

    I didn’t say Al-Freyman is an Islamist, he is simply using one of their tools.”

    Of course you did. You called him an “Islamofascist propagandist”; the posting record is clear as duck soup.

    Now you’re backtracking (because you’ve been called on it) — but only so as to preserve your weakened credibility.

    “Who knows what swills inside his brain? I couldn’t care less, I only care what is the effect and intent of people.”

    You are a loudmouthed character assassin, Max — with all the inclinations (and curiously enough, many of the crude rhetorical skills)

    — of the very “commies” you say you ‘used’ to know.

    Yes, I do indeed know you — and in time our acquaintances on this website are ALL going to know you.

  15. @ the phoenix:

    “[T]he outrage and disdain that max is showing to this freyman idiot is, i am sure, shared by many (yours truly here for sure!) but that comes from a person with a good heart and CLEAR MORAL COMPASS (max, that is).”

    Really? — think you know him that well, do you?

    “i would remind you, dweller, that when buffalo sense danger they move into a protective formation.”

    True. And cows (of all bovine species) typically gravitate to the middle of the herd.

    However, when the human creature does that, he experiences conflict. The words cowardice — and cowed — come from the word cow.

    And bullying (which, of course, comes from the word bull) is the flipside of that same bogus, counterfeit coin.

    Hence the old adage, “Scratch a bully, and underneath there lies a coward.”

    The danger of which you speak, phoenix, is simply not effectively neutralized by uniformly piling-on over somebody irrespective of the specifics of his remarks.

    And with your next comment, I come full circle to the point of departure in the matter that drew you into my exchange with Max.

    “…and idiotic comments made by the likes of freyman (aka ‘herr freyermann’, aka al-freyman’) are dealt with, by any of the other commenters.”

    I’m not unaware of the questionable nature of many of Donald Freyman’s comments; I’ve CALLED him on some of them myself. But I’ve yet to see any that intimate an expressly ‘Islamofascist’ agenda or sympathy; he may have one, but I’ve not yet seen it. And I’ve done some looking.

    If you (or anybody else) can show me that specifically, I’ll be most grateful for the opportunity to consider it. And address it.

    But I won’t join a lynch mob.

    And I won’t sit still watching one form right under my nose.

  16. @ the phoenix:

    “i know that the library is opened for the rest of the day and so you’d have the time…”

    You are mistaken. The hours of the library have little, if anything, to do with what hours in it are available to ME.

    I probably spend WAY less time online than virtually any of the other regular posters on this board.

    “… and PROVE what an unsophisticated and brute the phoenix is…”

    I have no problem with your ‘unsophistication’ OR ‘brutishness.’

    You lack of self-control, OTOH, is another matter — which I’m coming to.

    “you DID push my buttons to which i must respond…”

    That was your first mistake.

    There should be nobody in this WORLD capable of ‘pushing your buttons.’

    You stop being rational at that point — your perception acquires the properties of a fun-house mirror at that point.

    You become subject to error.

    Some errors can be quite serious

    — occasionally incapable of reversal or correction.

    In the struggle between Israel and the Enemy, would you rather that WE made the mistakes

    — or that THEY did?

    “i have read many of your comments and exchanges… you come here to this forum NOT TO OFFER A SOLUTION OR SOLIDARITY…”

    If that’s your considered opinion, then obviously you haven’t read enough of my comments & exchanges.

    “… but to prove how ‘zen’ and enlightened and oh..so cool calm and collected and never getting your feathers ruffled you are…”

    And why would I want to do that while giving you only my online handle? — How does one take ‘credit’ for something ‘proved’ if not in his own name?

    Where’s the margin in that?

    — Nice try, phoenix, but no cigar.

    But don’t let that keep you from taking another shot if you must; you get 3 for a quarter, and you’ve scarcely opened the roll.

    No, boychik, the difference between yourself and myself is NOT that I ‘never get my feathers ruffled.’

    (It would be wonderful to HAVE that degree of self-possession, but I know I have “miles to go before I sleep.”)

    The difference between you & me is that when I do become upset, I don’t justify it; I don’t pretend to myself that it’s a good thing.

    I know it’s a mistake — a major one — that effects other lives beside my own

    — and that calls for a reset.

  17. @ Max:

    “…’Islamofascist’? — evidence?”

    “If you don’t recognize intent like when someone is trying to destroy you them you will end up buried with the rest of the evidence.”

    That’s your idea of ‘evidence’?

    “I answered you.”

    How was that an answer? I asked you for evidence. Your comment was non-responsive. You gave me no evidence.

    Only your spleen.

    “Since you are defending an Islamofascist propagandist and attacking me, your intent is clear.”

    You are begging the question.

    You haven’t yet shown that he’s an ‘Islamofascist’ (even after I’d offered you the opportunity) — and instead of showing me how he’s an ‘Islamofascist,’ it was YOU who attacked ME for having the temerity to call you on it. (Re-read the posting record.)

    When you provide some evidence, I’ll be more than happy to take a serious look at it.

    What’s more, I neither ‘defended’ Mr Freyman NOR ‘attacked’ you.

    If what I wrote above gives you the impression that I did either of those things, then you could profit from either

    A. investing in a good dictionary; or

    B. enrolling in a course in remedial reading.

    But in any case, don’t go back to caffeine. It’s fraying your synapses.

  18. “Will Morsi turn the Army loose on the mob?”

    Are the Kennedys gun-shy? I think he will do whatever is required of him as a blood-lusting, religious Muslim, Yamit. He’s in a real pickle: He wants to look the part of a “moderate Islamist” (another grossly oxymoronic term invented by the Western media) while at the same time he is sleepless at night trying to repress his urge to just go out in the streets and start murdering enmasse all those who disagree with his supercilious “political” career.

    Also, I’m saddened to read that Harper’s government is going to continue donating money (my tax dollars!!) to these pieces of shit Muslim terrorists PA. “A little folly outweighs wisdom and honour.”

  19. “Furthermore, I think that Israel should round up and deport the PA, fatah and PLO on the basis that they were allowed back under Oslo and having having breached Oslo there is no legal reason to remain.”

    My thoughts exactly, Mr. Ross. In my Gentile, rural Irish-Canadian jargon we would say, “Get the f### out!”

  20. @ yamit82: I agree with these reactions 100%. It should be made clear that each attempt to hurt Israel will end up hurting the arabs. Furthermore, I think that Israel should round up and deport the PA, fatah and PLO on the basis that they were allowed back under Oslo and having having breached Oslo there is no legal reason to remain. also, I think they should ban all EU, UN and US agents in area B & C. They should remove any PA traces and offices from anywhere in Jerusalem and Area B & C minimum because having declared a state they have no sovereignty in those areas. No one allows a state to operate as a state under their own state, or even under territory they control, without approval. It is important to remove anything contradicting Israeli sovereignty.