Liberman calls for full adoption of Levy settlement report

13 Comments / 13 Comments

1. @ steven l:

   That was constructive!

2. @ Yidvocate:
   This deserves no comment!

3. @ steven l:

   I didn’t know they voted in the Israeli elections!

4. The problem is, the anti Zionists American Jews, most of them being democrats, will not support Bibi and Lieberman.

5. I agree. Israel should be clear once and for all and set the red lines. Jerusalem is not for negotiating, period.
   Neither is Judea and Samaria. If you are clear, we can put an end to all this nonsense and the world will have
   to accept it. Period. As far as the arabs are concerned, they will never accept anything except the full return of all of
   Israel-so enough of all the hypocrisy. The choice will be theirs. Live in Israel, in peace and under Israeli laws, or leave to some
   other arab country or any country of their choice. Perhaps Israel could even have package deals for them to exit
   “Palestine” if they prefer not to live in Israel-not Israel occupation but Israel proper which will include all of the above.
   Shalom

6. I fully concur with Lieberman.@ Nigel Shaw:
   The Muslim dismiss everything that is not recognized as Muslim. So what.
   Even Obama claims that Islam is part of the US history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

7. @ Ted Belman:

   The interactions between Jews and Arabs were always complex, with politics influencing the participants as much or more than religion.

   Thus, while there were instances of horrible enmity, it also seems that the Muslim armies of Mohamed were supported by large allied armies of Jews.

   An Arab Muslim story gives a glimpse of the relationship between the Jewish warriors and Mohamed:

   It seems that one day Mohamed had planned a battle against a particular city. Many said that the time was wrong, or that the city was too well defended. At length, the commander of the Jews came into Mohamed’s tent.
   “Tell me frankly, So that we can decide whether to leave or to aid you,” said the Jew, “Did you decide on this battle or did God command it?”
   …For it is known to all that when Mohamed planned a battle, it invariably failed, but if God commanded it, then the armies of the Muslims were invariably victorious.

   Long after the death of Mohamed, after Islam had become a world religion, during the upheavals of the Crusades, Jewish mountain warriors in Arabia continued as valuable allies.
   Benjamin of Tudela, traveling in the 12th century wrote about the Hashishim (the Arab warriors feared by the Crusaders):

   [They] live on high mountains, and worship the Old Man of the land of the Hashishim. And among them there are four communities of Israel who go forth with them in war time. They are not under the rule of the king of Persia, but reside in the high mountains… and none can overcome them.”

   Until the 20th century whenever Jews had a choice of choosing between living under Islamic or Christian Rulers they mostly choose Islamic ones. Not because they were so good for the Jews but it was usually a matter of who they deemed worse. Jews for the most part under Islam lived as autonomous minorities. There were never Holocausts of Jews under Islam.

   The Jews of the ancient world up until the enlightenment were a warrior nation: In the later seventh century, the Berber Jewish Warriors of North Africa learned of the oppression of the Jews in the Visigoth Christian kingdoms of Spain ( Spain before the Expulsion). In an attempt to rescue them, a Berber Jewish army invaded Spain in aproximately 694 CE. The invasion was unsuccessful. Instead, a Moorish, Muslim army defeated the Visigoths in Spain a few years later (711 – 715 CE). Under Moorish rule, the Jews of Spain were liberated and returned to their rightful position in Spanish society.

   500 CE: The Visigothic Kingdom, centered at Toulouse, controlled most of Hispania on and off until 711 CE.

   c.600 CE: The Visigothic Code written, Chapter XII Concerned the Eradication of the Errors of all Heretics and Jews

   613 CE: Visigothic King Sisebur, (612-620) decrees that the Jews of Hispania either convert or be expelled.

   633 CE: The Fourth Council of Toledo, convened to address the problem of crypto-Judaism, and forced baptisms

   638 CE: King Chintila (636-639) directed 6th Council of Toledo to permit only Catholics in the kingdom.

   653 CE: The 8th Council of Toledo forbade of all Jewish rites, including circumcision and the observation of the Shabbat

   672 CE: Visigothic King Wamba (672-680) issued limited expulsion orders against the Jews of Hispania

   694 CE: The 12th Council of Toledo ordered Jews forcibly baptized, property seized, executions, slavery, and children over seven years of age taken from their parents to be adopted by Christians or enslaved
   

8. @ Ted Belman:
   Source: Maimonides, “Letter to Yemen” 1:4.

   Excerpt from Maimonides, “Letter to Yemen” concerning Mohammed and Islam
   There never came against Israel a more antagonistic nation. They oppress us with the most oppressive measures to lessen our number, reduce us, and make us as despicable as they themselves are. King David, may he rest in peace, saw through Divine Inspiration all the calamities that were destined to come upon Israel. Nevertheless [even though he saw all the other troubles], he still began to shout out and lament in the name of the whole nation against the oppression that would be occasioned by the Ishmaelites. David said, “WOE IS ME, THAT I SOJOURN IN MESECH, THAT I DWELL IN THE TENTS OF KEDAR!” [Psalms 120:5].
   Notice how David emphasizes “Kedar” out of all the other Children of Ishmael. This is because that Mad Man [Hebrew: “meshuga”] came from Kedar according to what has been published concerning his geneaology.
   
   Maimonides is referring to the fact that Mohammed was from the Koresh clan of Arabs and they claimed descent from Kedar son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13).
   -Maimonides continues to explain from Daniel 8:10 that Ishmael will ultimately be defeated by Israel.

   . A fanatical Moslem cleric became the ruler of this distant, primitive South Arabian land and decreed that his Jewish subjects convert to Islam under the threat of harsh punishment and suffering. Their agony was compounded by a Jewish apostate who embraced Mohammedanism. To demonstrate his zeal for his newly adopted faith, he began preaching to the Jewish communities that Mohammed was a divinely sent prophet alluded to in the Bible and that Islam was a new, divinely revealed religion superseding Judaism. Hence, the apostate argued, the Jews should yield to the ruler’s demand and embrace Mohammedanism. Furthermore, at just about this time, an impostor appeared proclaiming himself to be the Messiah, adding to the confusion of the poor wretched masses. Rabbi Jacob al-Fayumi turned to Rambam for advice and counsel.

   Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon addressed a letter to this sage, and through him to the entire Jewish population of Yemen. He states that the root of all anti-Semitism throughout the ages is envy of the Jews being the Chosen People and the recipients of the G-d given Torah. Unable to do battle with the Almighty Himself, the haters turn their jealous rage toward His people.

   Throughout the ages this has taken three forms: brute force to exterminate the physical existence of the Chosen People; sophisticated persuasions to refute or falsify the teachings of Judaism, epitomized by Hellenism; and finally by the combination of the two, the false claims of new religions – Christianity and Islam – that Judaism is no longer valid and Jews must be forced to accept the new revelation. He consoled them by telling them that the Jews are a unique and indestructible nation; that all the past and present sufferings and persecutions were foretold by the Prophets, and just as in the past the nations had failed to annihilate the Jewish people or destroy the Jewish religion, so will the present persecution fail, and peace and tranquility will return to the community. He contemptuously dismissed and disproved the assertion that Judaism has been supplanted by Islam and showed that the claim that Mohammed is alluded to in the Bible is based upon nonsensical interpretations recognized as such even by the Moslems themselves.

   Rambam advised that the self-proclaimed Messiah is nothing but an impostor and no doubt a madman. He urged them to remain firm in the belief that G-d will send the true Moshiach to redeem the Jewish people from suffering in exile at the proper time.

   The epistle accomplished its purpose – the Yemenite Jews remained faithful to their religion in the face of their bitter suffering. Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon used his influence at the court of Saladin in Egypt to intervene in their behalf, and the persecution came to an end. The Jewish community of Yemen gratefully appreciated both the spiritual advice as well as the actual help of Rambam in the hour of their distress and honored him by including his name in the Kaddish prayer, saying: “May He establish His kingship… in your lifetime and in the lifetime of the entire House of Israel and in the lifetime of our teacher Moshe ben Maimon,” an honor heretofore reserved for the Resh Galutah (Jewish Exilarch) in Babylonia.

   There are things which are within the scope and capacity of the human mind to grasp; there are things which the mind can in no way and by no means fathom – the gates of perception are closed against it.

   Moreh Nevuchim 1:31

9. Nigel Shaw Said:

   As the Rambam said, the teachings of the Koran, brought by the one that he called “the madman” will be exposed to the world as a false teaching,

   Could you or anyone else provide me with quotes or links that show the Jewish response to Islam. I’d like to use them in an article I am writing.

10. The secular right asserts that Judea and Samaria are not illegally occupied according to international law, citing the Balfour declaration, the San Remo conference and the League of Nations & UN rulings, but all this is dismissed by the Islamic antagonists who desire Israel’s destruction.
    Ultimately, as the Jewish state is involved in a religious conflict with its Muslim enemy refusing to countenance a Jewish presence on what they consider to be land that had been subject to their conquest, the conflict at heart is not a political one, it is a spiritual confrontation,
    As the Rambam said, the teachings of the Koran, brought by the one that he called “the madman” will be exposed to the world as a false teaching, and the truth of the matter will be settled, as the world recognises the Jewish deeds of ownership for Eretz Yisrael as G-d’s Torah.

11. Is it possible that we are finally seeing some movement towards jewish settlement. Is this a reason for party unification, to present a united front to the foreign pressure. Or is lieberman a red herring or lightning rod whereby BB can wear many hats(good cop bad cop). BB had Barak and Liberman as red herrings & lightning rods and it was difficult to see who he was.

12. @ Yidvocate:
    No really I don’t.

13. All of a sudden, I like this guy!