By Ted Belman
In my article America’s Limited Options I noted how scholars are divided on whether “moderate Islam is the solution”.
Perhaps the last word should go to Fjordman who in his column, Do we want an Islamic Reformation? wrote
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“The only way you could, even theoretically, create a peaceful, tolerant Islam would be to permanently ignore all teachings, contained in the Koran, the hadith and the sira, originating from the violent Medina period. I doubt whether this is practically possible, and even if it was, it would mean that Muslims quite literally have to get rid of half of the Koran, which again means that Mr. Wilder is correct.â€
[Dutch MP Geert Wilders has said provocative things such as that the country faces being swamped by a “tidal wave of Islamization,” that if Muslims want to stay in the Netherlands, they should tear out half the Koran and that “If Muhammad lived here today, I would propose he be tarred and feathered as an extremist and driven out of the country.”]
Larry,
I expected more of your response than your platitudes and your opinion presented without facts and reason to back up your views and your failure to address the points I made as I made them.
Your starting off characterzing me as with your characterization of me as a A Chauvinist Western Culturally Superior ( you know what). Now that is always helpful to a discussion.
Just how would you characterize yourself? A left wing, politically correct sycophant bowing with unquestioning faith before your idol or God of multiculturalism?
Just what do you believe in apart from your rant to eviscerate Islam to leave only the good parts, that we can’t leave it to reformers to reform Islam which is a life and death issue for civilization, we must act or face disaster from the 300 million Muslims who support suicide bombers.
Just what facts do you have and logic and reason to apply to support your views or your disagreements with me.
So far you have given me nothing and if nothing is all you got, this discussion is over.
You might be right, Bill, that nothing we do will make any difference because of the wide cultural gaps between Muslims and other people. However, I would opt for enforcing public safety instead of merely hoping and wishing that they will reform themselves. We can’t afford to wait for that to happen.
I watched a documentary about the Mormon Church – after years of being the polygamist and the racist religion of western USA, they are now mainstream and part of the fabric of society. I am sure that western Muslims could make a similar transformation if the want and if we insist through law and societal pressure.
The pressure of western society to bring extremes to the center is more powerful than you might think. It is a subtle pressure that some might fault for its homogeneous effects on disparate cultures, religions and people but it also means that extremists are shunned and violence is punished. The application of justice is flawed, yes, but at least it is applied equally and somewhat fairly (though it is more fair for the rich).
The worst thing that we can do is to show our respect and admiration for sects and religions and cults that are nothing more than fronts for power mongers and politicos and terrorists. A religion must lose its status as a religion if it crosses the line – and some Islamists constantly cross that line in Europe and, to a much lesser extent, here in North America. Doing something about it is the responsibility of everyone.
Gary,
I concur except you are not talking about supporting Muslims who want to reform Islam, but rather the West imposing its cultural and legal will on Muslims.
I also concur with your comment that Westerners should have healthy disdain for relgions that advocate the antithesis of what our Western Judeo-Chiristian religions and culture holds. That is part of what I have advocated about Westerners being openly honest with themselves, standing up and acting in furtherance of what they believe and against what is contrary to what they believe.
I disagree however that such healthy disdain you speak of will necessarily result in Islam being reformed much faster.
Reform minded Muslims might not find that their situation has changed if the radical Muslim world and radical Muslims in the West choose not to be intimidated and start to accomodate Western demands, but rather they react with even greater anger and more rhetoric that draws many more Muslims to their radical cause. In such case there would be that many more Muslims who would pose an immediate threat to Westerners and that could bring the West and the Muslim world that much close to an all out Clash of Civilizations.
Dear Bill:
With your remarks on the Superiority of Western culture and your stand against Multi- Culturalism you are coming across as – A Chauvinist Western Culturally Superior ( you know what)
Islam cannot move forward with force and threats. Islam needs to be reformed and new ideas need to be incorporated for fresh thinking and survival. Reformation will be resisted by Islamic fundamentalists with violence and terrorism. For the future of our freedom, peace and life it must be undertaken. A reformed Islam will have more influence and acceptance around the world.
The Reform of Islam is a life and death issue for civilization.
The greatest danger mankind faces is the smuggling of a nuclear weapon by an Islamic Fundamentalist into a major western city killing millions in the name of and to the greater glory of ALLAH. If the hateful teachings are not removed from Islam this is the disaster that will destroy civilization as we know it. It will dramatically change human history forever. The stakes are that high.
We cannot leave our fate in the hands of Muslim reformers alone.
Quoting an article by Robert Spencer concerning the Pew poll in which a shocking 300,000 US Muslims supported suicide bombers:
“In fact, neither the CAIR nor the MPAC website contains any announcement about any program or initiative of any kind designed to lessen support for suicide bombing and Al-Qaeda within the Muslim community in America.
And therein lies the problem. The first poll-related question in every media analyst’s mind should have been this: What do Muslim groups plan to do to combat the spread of the jihadist ideology of Islamic supremacism among Muslims in America? Pointing out that most Muslims in America eschew that ideology is not enough; what about the others? Almost six years after 9/11, no pressure is coming either from the mainstream media or law enforcement for Muslim groups in the United States to institute comprehensive educational programs against jihadism in their mosques and schools. This poll, however, shows how much such programs are needed — as well as a national debate about how these groups should be regarded if they refuse or fail to implement such programs.
But instead, we are supposed to be reassured that those holding jihadist sentiments number only a few hundred thousand. The public discourse about Islamic jihad has been dominated by fantasy since 9/11 and before that, and if anything, the fog is thicker now than ever.”
WE ARE FACING A DISASTER.
On a world wide scale 300 million Muslims support suicide bombers.
We must demand that Muslims denounce all violence and the suborgation of women in their religion.
Violence and murder are evil. Using religion as a vehicle for the killing of millions of people is EVIL. IT IS A SIN AGAINST GOD.
Since these Islamic Fundamentalist are trying to kill us and blow up our cities, we have every right to defend ourselves from this evil. As Robert Spencer said – we must demand action from Muslims and if they fail then we must take action.
Failure to do so will lead to a very great tragedy.
By
Larry Houle
Yes, but let’s give them a hand by doing the following:
1) Make sure that incitement to kill others does not become part of the Mosque’s agenda – with periodic inspections of private schools and religious institutions to ensure public safety.
2) Remind new immigrants of the strong separation of church and state – a concept that we take very seriously in the West.
3) Make it a crime to support those groups that we consider to be on the terrorist list: Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, etc…
4) Respect other’s religious beliefs unless and until they begin to hide behind the cloak of religion to disguise murderous intent and other nefarious motives. Do not allow religious buildings to become refuges and hiding places for terror groups.
Reform will happen much faster in Islam if we have a healthy disdain for religions that refuse to conform to high ethical standards (yes, our standards) and refuse to respect everyone else. Advocating for a “Celebrate the Hijab Day” as proposed at one local Ontario university, makes no sense if you want Muslims to understand the oppressive and sexist nature of certain symbols that make Islam so unaccommodating in Muslim states and even more so here in the West where they sometimes represent political reminders that they hate us and that they want to embrace the ways of their native religious dictatorships.
Larry Houle,
Thanks for your comments, but I still disagree with you. I am fleshing out some areas of disagreement to get your reaction. Lets see where this takes us.
1. Is Western culture superior to Islamic culture?
I take it, given your disagreement with me that you are of the view that Western culture is equal, but not superior to Islamic culture, notwithstanding that you are advocating that Islamic culture change as per your proposals.
Let me start there then with my comments.
That Westerners such as yourself presume to tell Muslims that they have a problem with their religion, that we Westerners want to help those Muslims who see the problem as we Westerners see it and accordingly want Islamic reform and that we tell Muslims how their religion should be reformed by excising parts of their holy scripture so it can become compatible with Western culture, clearly evinces proof certain that notwithstanding yours and many other Westerners’ denials to the contrary, you do believe in the superiority of Western culture over Islamic culture.
As to whether Western culture really is superior to Islamic culture, that depends first by what standards or indicia one measures one culture against the other and secondly and just as importantly, who is doing the measuring.
Logic says that if Westerners do not want to see their culture and way of life ebb away and be lessened or lost by Westerners appeasing, changing or accommodating to the demands of the more vocal and radical Muslim world that threatens and endangers the West, Westerners had better start not just quietly thinking Western culture is superior and worth fighting for, but to unashamedly shout out their beliefs and act on them without reservation, equivocation or hesitation.
It is only logical and reasonable that a Westerner given a choice as to which culture is best for them, that in most cases they would choose Western culture.
When I say Western culture is superior to Islamic culture, I mean that it is superior for me. That is my value judgment by comparing the two cultures historically and what I see of each today. I expect most Westerners would come to the same conclusion as I.
Westerners however need to open their eyes to the fact that our culture is being attacked and it is indeed being changed by the more radical and demanding Muslim voices seeking to force the West to change to accommodate their culture and beliefs.
I am thankful that I am part of my Western culture and value and enjoy what it provides me. Most Westerners do as well.
What Westerners who think as I need to do now is to recognize that what we have is worth fighting for or we will lose it if we don’t fight. We therefor must stand tall in confronting the radical and demanding Muslim forces that seek to change and thereby lessen our way of life from what we know or take it away altogether.
We are not yet at the point of a War of Civilizations.
We are however very much involved in a clash of cultures that allowed to continue as it has, can lead to the West ultimately surrendering with at best a whimper or to the West being ultimately pushed beyond limit and exploding with unbridled seething rage and consumed by desire for vengeance and revenge that indeed would quickly become a War of Civilizations. The carnage and victims of such war would be staggering.
That possible Western surrender or War of Civilizations can be avoided if the West opens its eyes to what has been and continues to be happening to it as regards the radical elements in the Muslim world and reacts defensively now. Such defense would not be confined to a ground and economic war, but just, if not more importantly on the battlefield of words and ideas.
Why should the West care that using the phrase War of Civilizations will inflame Muslims and alter the discussion.
The Muslims have been inflamed far too much for far too long. It is time for the West to become inflamed.
A good place to start is to alter the discussion.
A very great many in the Muslim world have been led to believe by Western complacency and appeasement in the face of Muslim violence, threats and demands coupled with veiled threats, that their strategy to get what they want from the West is working and that only serves to embolden those Muslims to ratchet up their violence, rhetoric and demands.
The West must alter the discussion with the Muslim world and disabuse them of their notion by words and deeds, that the West is weak and that Muslim violence, threats and demands will get Muslims what they want.
To the contrary, Western multiculturalism is very much a part of the dynamic of how the West responds to the more radical elements of the Muslim world as well as those in the Muslim world who are most vocal and aggressive in demanding Westerners afford Muslims, both outside and within their Western nations, special consideration by changing certain aspects of Western life and laws to accommodate the Muslim demands.
As a Westerner you state that multiculturalism is one of the West’s strengths and we should be proud of what we Westerners have achieved by virtue of multicultural values.
I take issue with your view in this regard.
Contrary to your view, multiculturalism has not stilled the beast of conflicting ethnic diversity to allow Western culturally diverse and pluralistic societies to function in mutual tolerance, peace and harmony.
Rather it is political correctness, the language of multiculturalism that has led to glossing over the conflicts percolating below the surface of our society and allowed to continue will boil to the surface. Indeed the conflicts and tension between many Muslims living in the West and non-Muslim Westerners has already boiled and flamed to the surface.
It is political correctness that silences voices that need to be heard and which forces us to so tailor words to avoid offending anyone, that robs those words of truth and meaning.
Multiculturalism is a Western ideology that seeks to define how ethnically diverse cultures within a pluralistic society should see each other and from that, act towards each other to achieve stability and harmony within that society. Multiculturalism seeks to tame frictional and conflicting differences between diverse ethnic cultures through tenets of mutual tolerance and respect for those differences.
To that end one of the fundamental tenets of multiculturalism is found in a generality that all differing cultures making up a pluralistic society are equal, meaning of equal value to making up the society and are each entitled from the others equal regard and respect for their ways including their differences.
In theory Multiculturalism sounds like it could work for the better of society, but it actually does not work well at all when it comes to any ethnically diverse minority refusing to go along with the tenets of multiculturalism, but rather uses those values to their advantage as they demand special priviledge and accomodation to their demands.
Multicultural ideology as noted, provides no answer to what is to be done by society when one of those diverse cultures does not play by the multicultural rules and instead of having mutual tolerance and respect for others, demands from their Western society special consideration and change in social and legal ways to accommodate their demands.
Secondly, multicultural ideology is contrary to human nature. It is only human that we all on a virtually daily basis make decisions for ourselves and for others we may wish to align with, based on variations of cost benefit analyses, from the simple to the sophisticated. It is a very human quality that we make decisions as to what is good for us, what is bad for us and what is good, better and best by making comparisons and exercising judgments including value judgments, be they based on emotions, logic and reason or what is usually the case, a combination of both.
Multiculturalism that seeks to undermine, blind or numb us to our natural instincts and our own natures and seeks to have us think and act contrary to our own natures cannot possibly be a good thing when we are facing threats and dangers to ourselves and our way of life.
In any event some of the greatest proponents of multiculturalism are complete hypocrites.
How many times have we read the words of Western pundits steeped in left wing ideology or being strong proponents of multiculturalism proclaim the sanctity of each and every human being and the equal value of all diverse cultures? You find them preaching from the safety of their Western homes, but rarely if ever find they have moved to some morally bankrupt, corruption and violence ridden nation that they speak so well of and defend.
It is Westerners however in standing up for their multi-cultural principles for the benefit of the other minority cultures in Western society, have lost touch with the value of their own Judeo Christian cultural society and fail to stand up for and protect their own Western culture and all that entails from those that threaten our Western way of life.
4. You state Larry that you disagree with my statement:
My point can otherwise be made. How would Christians view advice from Jews or Muslims on how their religious texts should be edited or changed by excising various passages?
While many Westerners advocate that we should be supporting those Muslims who seek to reform Islam, no Westerner asks just what do these Islamic reformers propose?
Rather many non-Muslim Westerners make their own suggestions on how Islam needs to be reformed including suggestions by yourself that Islam can only be reformed by excising those words and passages from the Koran and Hadith which are an anathema to or the antithesis of Western beliefs.
I expect there is diversity of opinion amongst those Muslims who are characterized as reformers. As I pointed out, I have not as yet read an Islamic reformists view that gets beyond the general which deals as I noted earlier with restoring Itjahad to Islamic study and belief as well as abandoning literalist translations for figurative and interpretive translations that are more in accord with Western values and beliefs.
Just which Muslim reformers therefore should the West support?
If none of these reformers are prepared to change or delete one word of their holy writings but simply strain the limits of interpretation, will the West see that as sufficient to have Islam reform to the point of having shared values, perceptions, morality and ethics with Judeo-Christian culture?
For those Westerners who contend that Islam can only be reformed by Muslims excising from their holy scriptures those parts Westerners deem evil and the antithesis of Western beliefs, the efforts of Islamic reformers that does not correspond with those Western views will be seen as wholly inadequate to reform Islam into the religion the West wants it reformed into.
Do Westerners really think that what they find evil and what they find acceptable in Islam is a view held by Muslims and specifically Muslim reformers and if so, which Muslims then should have the West’s support?
In any event, I stand by my statement that it is for Muslims to reform Islam and not non-Muslims.
Non-Muslims can of course play a supportive role if a reform minded Muslim comes along whose idea for reform accords and is compatible with Western thinking, values and in a word, culture.
The main problem is that Islam seems to be going in the opposite direction and the versus of Koran are open to less interpretation than the Bible – Nor are there versus in the Koran that refute violence to the extent that there are in the Bible. The Koran will be a much more difficult to get a message of love out of than the New Testement, because unlike the latter, love is not written into it.
At this point, reformers of Islam are more likely to agitate than reform; although, agitation is a prerequisite for reform. Change of this nature usually takes decades of agitation before it gains enough momentum to create change. It is not likely, therefore, that we will see a reformation soon until there is enough momentum created and the radical elements are forcibly destroyed. While radical factions exist it remains possible for adherents to maintain faith in them and most will not question that faith until the absolute destruction of the radicals from which they cannot arise. This is not unlike the embedded ideology of Nazism that would not give out until the end.
When we speak of reformation we do so in the context of religion. What we must remember is that Islam is also political. Reformation has as much to do with political power as it does with religion. The Church of Rome also held political power and it was not until the reformers began to influence rulers that there was any contesting the Church’s authority.
First then, we need reformers in Islam; where are they? Second, these reformers must also be able to influence political powers because we are not only dealing with a religious faith.
On the other hand, can moderate political powers in Islamic nations be the catalyst for reformation rather than change beginning in the religious sector? Either way, there must first be paradigm shift if Islam is going to become more tolerant of others; the radical factions must be forcibly purged out, either by the state or by more moderate factions, and there is no way around it. At this point we seem so far away from that happening.
Reform of a religion is so easy that even a cave man can do it. Jews managed to stop offering human sacrifices some 2-3 thousand years ago. The Catholic Church managed to shake off its desire to segregate, convert and kill Jews just a few decades ago. Now it is time for Islam to reform itself – with our help if need be.
It would be in Islam’s best interest to do so because I can’t imagine a religion based on jihad surviving too long before it devours itself and followers with any intelligence started to shop somewhere else for their moral touchstones.
I don’t care if they do it by eviscerating their texts or by calling it Islam 2.0 and ignoring the dry rot that makes acceptance of and living with others (or living with other Muslims) an impossibility. Just do it now and leave the caves behind for a Western version of Islam that could be exported to those still stuck in the dark ages.
My conclusion is that hoping for a moderate Islam to replace Islam amounts to hoping that in the end you will only get moderately killed.
Just a few cimments.
Yes the reformers are the radicals.
Many Muslems love the good parts and have no interest in embracing the bad parts A way must be found to allow them to keep the good parts unadulterated by the bad parts.
Thus it is not a question of whether it is possible to remove the bad parts and still have something we call Islam. If such parts are removed, the remaining Islam would be a totally different religion.
What matters though is that these peace loving Muslims remain with something familiar to call their own. Its like having a radical masectomy, at least the patient is still alive and better for it.
Dear Bill:
I disagree with part of your comment recorded as 18.
Quoting -†If the West is to gain the resolve to save itself, it is a matter of whether the West can again see itself as having the superior cultureâ€
“that Western culture is superior to Islamic cultureâ€
We are not engaged in a War of Civilizations. Such statements will only inflame Muslims and alter the discussion. We are not even dealing with an issue of multi -culturism. Indeed one of the strengths of the west has been its ability to take in to its bosom 5200 different cultures, nations, tribes, ethnic groups, religious groups, etc and have them all live side by side in relative peace. We should all take pride in this achievement.
Unfortunately, as you have stated – the reform of Islam and condemning its evil teachings of murder and woman’s inferiority is definitely crippled by – political correctness in the West.
What we want to achieve is a very limited goal of removing from Islam all teachings of violence and the subrogation of women. We are not challenging Islamic teachings such as praying 5 times a day, washing feet before praying, the non belief of Muslims in the doctrine of Trinity.
I disagree with your statement -†It is however for Muslims to reform Islam and not for non-Muslims such as Larry Houle.â€
This is an issue of conscience. Islam as it is presently constituted is an issue of conscience and its Reform is definitely the concern of all peace loving, democratic believing peoples everywhere. Violence in Islam is a direct threat to all mankind. It is an issue of National Security not only for the West but also for Muslim countries.
Lest we all forget – it is mostly Muslims who are suffering and being killed and blown up in horrific numbers. Since 911 – over 150,000 Muslims have been murdered by their fellow Muslims in the worst ways imaginable.
Your statement – “Evil is a relative term of course and no doubt to many Muslims, Western culture and ways are evil by comparison to their way of seeing things.†I totally disagree with.
Murder, suicide bombings, violence, etc are evil. When these evil acts are committed in the name of and to the greater glory of ALLAH/GOD – this is the greatest evil that anyone can commit. To kill and murder so you can ascend to a Paradise of Big Breasted Nymphs to rape and molest for all eternity – this is truly evil incarnate.
WHY SHOULD WE WANT THESE TEACHINGS OF VIOLENCE AND SUBRAGATION OF WOMEN REMOVED FROM THE KORAN?
By leaving these violent and abhorrent teachings in the Koran, we are in effect saying that these teachings are NORMAL. By demanding that Peace Loving Moslems prove that they are truly peace loving – by removing these teachings – will be a TRUE MOMENT OF CATHARSIS FOR ISLAM.
The Koran is accepted by all Muslims as the word of God – not subject to change- not even by one word.
By forcing Muslims to confront these evil passages they will be forced to answer the following question:
Is Muhammad A False Prophet Or Is ALLAH A False Prophet?
Answer:
ALLAH AS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE – THE CREATOR OF ALL LIVING THINGS IS PERFECT.
AS A PERFECT GOD – ALL TEACHINGS OF ALLAH – MUST BE PERFECT
This means that all teachings recorded in the Koran and all other Islamic texts, revelations, writings, sayings, fatwas of murder, killing, death and destruction, violence, hate, suicide bombers, violent jihad, terrorism, torture, maiming, wife beating, inferiority of woman, subrogation of women, women as instruments of sexual pleasure in paradise, honor killings, stoning, cutting off limbs, child sex, bigotry, intolerance, slavery, inequality of infidels, inequality of any human being, that infidels can be murdered as a holy duty, that Muslims who renounce Islam can be killed, that Muslims (or anyone) who challenge the teachings of Islam can be murdered, etc are irrational AND NOT THE PERFECT TEACHINGS OF ALLAH. They are THE TEACHINGS OF MAN.
If Muhammad taught his followers that the above teachings were the WORDS of ALLAH then he is a false prophet since as a PERFECT GOD – ALLAH never would have given such revelations to Muhammad. If however, ALLAH issued any of these teachings to Muhammad then he is no longer PERFECT and therefore no longer GOD. Indeed the false PROPHET would be ALLAH. An evil false PROPHET.
Again the Reform of Islam is a life and death issue for civilization.
The greatest danger mankind faces is the smuggling of a nuclear weapon by an Islamic Fundamentalist into a major western city killing millions in the name of and to the greater glory of ALLAH. If the hateful teachings are not removed from Islam this is the disaster that will destroy civilization as we know it. It will dramatically change human history forever.
The stakes are that high.
By
Larry Houle
Gentleman,
Any attempt to change Islamic scripture would violate the Qur’an – the purported ‘immutable’ word of Allah.
Hence Islam would no longer be true, Muhammaden (authentic) Islam.
Ask yourselves, how would Muhammad and his companions view any changes to Allah’s revelation?
Would these reformers be left with their fingers, toes, eyes and genitals in tact? Would they be left with their heads? I think you all know the answer. (see Qur’an 5:33).
Allah is not the Elohim (God) of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Allah=Satan, Muhammad was a demon!
The religion of Islam has not been ‘hijacked’ by men. Rather, the religion of Islam HIJACKS the minds of men.
Only education and truth can combat the spread of Islam – not bombs and bullets. Remember that the greatest number of victims of Islam are Muslims themselves. One of the most compassionate things an individual can do is to help liberate a Muslim from the yoke of Islam.
Lastly, the term Islamic reformation, from a western point of view, implies a postive change in what Islamic scripture says and how it is interpreted. To think this could occur is sheer fantasy. Actually, true reformation (a la the Christian reformation) involves a return to the basic tenets of the scripture – in the case of Islam, a return to a fundamental interpretation of the Qur’an, Sira and Sunnah. Hence, a “true” Islamic reformation would produce more jihadists and turn many peaceful Muslims into warmongering terrorists.
Islam is not fixable! It must be exposed, rejected and refuted.
Jeff Grill
Larry Houle via his poster Personalrep1 and Jeff Grill are pretty much on the same page.
They differ only to the extent that Houle thinks portions of the Koran and Hadith can be excised, leaving only the non evil good parts that can comprise the reformed religion of Islam, while Jeff Grill characteraizes the whole of the Koran as evil or as he put it,
.
I took a moment to check on who has been writing of reforming Islam and what they have said. Generally, none of the reform advocates have advocated excising any part of the Koran and Hadith. Rather, like Irshad Manji she advocates a return to the time when Muslim scholars exercised what was called Itjahad or freedom of thought to interpret differing meanings of the words of the Koran.
Others, such as Tawfik Hamid speak of foresaking a literalist interpretation of the Koran and Hadith and instead look to an interpretive or I assume an Itjahad way of reading and understanding the Koran and Hadith.
Hamid, like others, including Irshad Manji make note of the fact that Western multiculturalism and political correctness restrain Westerners from encouraging so called Moderate Muslims from pursuing reforms, lest other moderate Muslims who actually may hold beliefs more akin to those Westerners characterize as fundamentalists are offended by Western advice and interference.
In the result, so called moderate Muslims and those who raise their voices to reform Islam to become a true religion of peace, harmony and tolerance in this world are not supported and instead are drowned out by the more radical Islamic voices.
Though I have not done any extensive study on just what Islamic reformers are advocating to achieve reform, it does not appear thus far that any are are advocating excising any passage, let alone even one word of the Koran and Hadith.
It is however for Muslims to reform Islam and not for non-Muslims such as Larry Houle.
How Muslims can do it and whether they will be able to do it soon, in our life time or in generations to come is an open question that admits no certain answer at this time.
What is known today is that many of the tenets of Islam that Larry Houle and Jeff Grill have noted, are an anthema to our Western ways. To call such tenets of Islam evil is of course measured against Western standards by Westerners who are engaged in comparing Western beliefs to those Islamic beliefs they find objectionable, if not an anathema to Western beliefs.
Evil is a relative term of course and no doubt to many Muslims, Western culture and ways are evil by comparison to their way of seeing things.
It appears to be coming down to which culture has the will and the power to impose its will on the other.
So far the radical Islamists for want of a better word certainly have the resolve to impose their will on the West. As for the power to impose their will on the West, the radical Islamists rely far less on their own powers and far more on Western weakness engendered by Western multiculturalism and political correctness taken to extremes.
The West still has the power to push back and indeed force the radical Islamists to cower in fear in dark caves and to bury their Islamic fundamentalist, literalst or extreme religious ideology, but the West thus far does not have the will to do so for as noted, the Western multicultural ethos and its spawn, political correctness robs the West of that will.
If the West is to gain the resolve to save itself, it is a matter of whether the West can again see itself as having the superior culture that is not just ours to enjoy, but ours to lose if we do not fight to keep it.
In order to do so, Westerners will have to cast off the shackles of multiculturalism and political correctness, feel utmost pride in their own culture, make a value judgement forbidden by multiculturalism and political correctness that Western culture is superior to Islamic culture and act accordingly to ensure the viability, strength and security of Western Judeo-Christian culture, values, and principles.
At this point it would appear that the West can only save itself by unhesitatingly eliminating any and all threats from any and all aspects of radical Islam, in all its facets and degrees.
By clearly seeing the threat and danger to our Western culture and way of life that Islam poses without the blinders of multiculturalism and political correctness, the West will more clearly see what it must do to ensure it not only survives intact, but flourishes as the superior and dominant culture and that will vastly improve the chances that the West will fight back to rise victorious over radical Islam in all its facets and degrees.
If the West can see clearly and act with unequivocal resolve to survive, win and thrive without threat and danger to our way of life, that would immeasurably aid and enable Muslims who do sincerely want to reform Islam to become a religion of peace, harmony, tolerance and compatible with Western culture to succeed in doing so.
Here is a message that I forwarded two months ago and then several weeks ago dealing with the issue of Islamic reformation.
Jeffrey Grill wrote: Dear Friends and Colleagues,
Please think about publishing my message below.
I was having a conversation with an individual who, like many in the mainstream media, uses the terms ‘radical Islam’ and ‘extreme Islam.’
I do, however, believe that we – in the West – are using inaccurate terminology when we continue to use terms such as radical Islam or extreme Islam.
The use of these terms creates a mindset which serves to obfuscate the truth about Islam.
I would like to suggest to you that the terms radical and extreme Islam are misnomers.
Please see the message below.
The term radical Islam (or extreme Islam) is a misnomer. This term implies that only a small number of Muslim Extremists adhere to a form of Islam which we, in the west, consider radical (according to our mores,morals and ethical values). Moreover, it is assumed that those who practice radical Islam are corrupting the message espoused in the Qur’an and Sunnah (sayings and tradtitions of Muhammad). In fact many ‘pundits’ in the media as well as many politicians (including President Bush), clergy and academicians have stated that “… a small number of radicals and extremists have hijacked a peaceful religion…”
By making such a mendacious proclamation, the implication is that Islam is a peaceful religion.
Nothing could be further from the truth!
Keep in mind that Muhammad’s Islam, fundamental Islam is not RADICAL ISLAM.
Pious Muslims who follow Muhammad’s example, outlined in the Qur’an and Sunnah, are practicing fundamental Islam (Muhammad’s Islam, ie authentic Islam).
The definition of radical according to Merriam-Webster is:
marked by a considerable departure from the usual or traditional : extreme b: tending or disposed to make extreme changes in existing views, habits, conditions, or institutions c: of, relating to, or constituting a political group associated with views, practices, and policies of extreme change d: advocating extreme measures to retain or restore a political state of affairs
Hence, those differing from traditional, fundamental views and who insist upon extreme change can be considered radical.
Ergo: Those who seek to reform or change Islam by changing the Qur’an/Sunnah or by adding to or subtracting from the Qur’an/Sunnah are radical.
Therefore, many individuals who label themselves as ‘moderates’ are the true radicals. Those individuals who seek to reform Islam are the true radicals.
Anyone who seeks to change Muhammad’s version of Islam is a radical.
All of those well meaning individuals (former Muslims and peaceful Muslims included) are radicals.
This is why I say – without equivocation – that Islam has to be exposed, rejected and refuted – just as Nazism was. Why would any intelligent human being want to follow a religious/political agenda such as that espoused in the Qur’an/Sunnah?
The more benign aspects of of Islamic scripture do not constitute a convincing argument to follow Muhammad. Also, keep in mind that the more benign (Meccan) verses of the Qur’an have been “abrogated” in favor of the more belligerent (Medinan) verses.
The bottom line is this: the Qur’an is a terrorist manifesto and the Sunnah is a declaration of war against mankind.
You may find these links useful:
http://www.jihadwatch.org
http://www.faithfreedom.org
http://www.islamanazi.com
http://www.prophetofdoom.net
http://www.religionofpeace.com
Jeff Grill, M.D.
Dear Ted Belman:
With regard to your quote –
We are not dealing here with the Good or who defines the Good. In every religion there are certain beliefs that must be accepted on faith alone. For example in Christianity, the Resurrection of Christ is an article of faith. Indeed belief in the existence of God is a supreme act of faith. As per the above quote in Judaism similar acts of faith are required of the believer.
However at no time are belief in evil teachings required as acts of faith.
For God to be God – God Must Be Perfect. If God is Not Perfect then God is no longer God. The corollary to a Perfect God is that The Teachings of A Perfect God Must Be Perfect. A Perfect God Cannot Teach Imperfect Teachings.
All teachings of violence, inequality of woman etc are Evil. God cannot command Man to commit evil acts. If God commands man to murder, kill, slaughter his enemies to his greater glory then God is evil. All teachings in the Koran demanding that Muslims kill non believers in order to go to heaven are evil AND NOT THE TEACHINGS OF ALLAH.
As a Perfect God – God created all sexes, races – each equal to the other. God never created women to be the sex slaves of men on earth or in paradise. All teachings in the Koran subrogating women to the will of men and all teachings of Paradise being filled with Big Breasted, Nymphs for the sexual pleasure of Muslim men who have murdered killed and slaughtered infidels for all eternity is an evil affront to every thing ALLAH stands for. THIS IS TRULY EVIL INCARNATE.
Among the inmates of Heaven women will be the minority” (Sahih Muslim 36: 6600);……..
“I (Mohammed) have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women…[because] they are ungrateful to their husbands and they are deficient in intelligence” (Sahih Bukhari: 2:18:161; 7:62:125, 1:6:301).
Perhaps to make up for the anticipated shortage of women in heaven, the Quran promises Muslim men beautiful virgins (houris) for their sexual pleasure (Q 44:54, 78:33, 55:56, 56:36 etc)
“The righteous (Muslims) they shall triumph…Theirs shall be voluptous women” – Q 78:31-33.
“As for the righteous (Muslims)…We (Allah) shall wed them to beautiful virgins with lustrous eyes” – Q 44:51-54
Estimates vary as to the number of virgins (2 to 72) per male Muslim in heaven (Sahih Bukhari 4:54:476, Al-Tirmidhi 2562). Actually the Tirmidhi Hadith states that 72 wives is the minimum, perhaps for the not so devout Muslims in the 7th heaven.
Mohammed said: “The least reward for the people of paradise is 80,000 servants and 72 wives” – Al-Tirmidhi 2562, 2687.
Prophets, suicide bombers and other Islamic martyrs in Islam’s first heaven may get up to 1000 virgins each. For maximum enjoyment of these numerous wives, Muslim men are guaranteed superb erection in heaven:
The Holy Prophet (Mohammed) said: “The believer will be given tremendous strength in Paradise for sexual intercourse”. It was questioned: “O prophet of Allah! can he do that?” He said: “He will be given the strength of one hundred persons.'” (Mishkat al-Masabih 4:42:24; Sunan al-Tirmidhi 2536).
When asked, “Do we have sex in Paradise?” Ibn Kathir, the renowned Islamic scholar explained: ‘Yes, by him who holds my soul in his hand, and it will be done…and when the sex is finished she will return pure and virgin again’ – Tafsir Ibn Kathir.
Al-Suyuti (15th century) another famous Islamic theologian and Quranic comentator adds:
“Each time we sleep with a houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected (Muslims in heaven) never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world …Each chosen Muslim will marry seventy houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetising vaginas.”
There is no special provision of virile male studs for the few Muslimahs (Muslim women) who manage to scale through to heaven.
This pre-occupation with sex in heaven is consistent with the Islamic view of women as sex objects for gratifying Muslim men.
“Women are your fields, go (men) into your fields as you please” – Quran 2:223
With its offer of prolonged hard-on and gratifying heavenly sex with virgins who “re-virginate” after sex, its little wonder Muslim terrorists, sucide bombers and other Islamic martyrs are in a hurry to enter Islam’s brothel paradise – Al-Jannah !!
And if all of this isn’t evil enough how about sex with children:
A Fatwa by the late Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran.
“A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man’s four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl’s sister.”
If ALLAH issued all the above commands and teachings then ALLAH is EVIL.
WHY DO WE WANT TO REMOVE ALL THE IRRATIONAL EVIL TEACHINGS FROM THE KORAN
Every Muslim claims that Islam is a religion of Peace and Love. They constantly quote the command – “ there is no compulsion in religion†to prove their case. The problem is that such good teachings are overwhelmed by the teachings of violence and made irrelevant. In the Mosques, evil Imans are preaching the evil teachings of Jihad, and murder. THAT IS WHY WE CANNOT TOLERATE THIS EVIL REMAINING IN THE KORAN.
THESE ARE NOT THE TEACHINGS OF ALLAH.
The reform of Islam is a life and death issue. There is no choice. IT MUST BE REFORMED. We as a democratic society cannot allow a Book that claims to be the WORD OF GOD STAND AS THE WORD OF GOD CONTAINING SUCH EVIL.
This is a sword aimed directly at our freedoms and values.
The reform of Islam is not a difficult task. We are only talking about removing the violence and the subrogation of women, infidels, etc. We are not challenging in any way religious beliefs like praying 5 times a day, not believing in the trinity etc . Once removed Islam will be a Religion of Peace. Issues such as environmentalism, family, poverty in the third world – modern issues that did not exist 1400 years ago – a truly great book can be created that all Muslims can take pride in. Such The printing of a new Koran will be a truly historic day for mankind.
By,
Larry Houle
.
Another excellent website
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Fisher/Topical/index.htm
A Topical
Study of the
Qur’an
From a Christian Perspective
By Rev Fisher
To further the debate I draw your attention to the following web sites of ex -muslims.
http://www.islam-watch.org
http://jihadwatch.org/
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.formermuslims.com
http://www.prophetofdoom.net
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
http://www.exmuslim.com/
http://www.answering-islam.org/
http://hnn.us/articles/16536.html – 7 myths regarding Islam
By
Larry Houle
The Protestant reformation was an attmpt to rid the Christian church of its excesses and get back to basic Christianity. We are now watching Islam do the same thing. Islamism is the equivalent Moslem reformation and we don’t want it. Sorry guys but reformed Islam is not a religion of peace but a fascist political movement based on a perverted belief in God’s rules and instructions. The type of reformation you are looking for “ain’t gonna happen”
Most religions and belief systems have a potentially negative effect on followers but the adherence to any “–ism†or even the belief in a totalitarian system which advocates the eradication of religion, as we witnessed in Soviet Union, can turn individuals into a throng of non-thinking, cowardly killers and automatons who will go along with their leaders and the masses because they fear and are made powerless by the force of those who wield the weapons.
Islam has been hijacked by those who read everything into the violent writings and teachings of Islam and ignore some of the more peaceful aspects of that religion. The moderates who live under such Islamic regimes of terror can do very little (if they try they will be tortured/killed) but those Muslims in the West can and must break away and do something to reform their religion and come up with a new westernized approach to Islam. One reason among many that they choose not to reform is because of the money they get from Saudi and other dictatorial Islamic regimes that make it hard, if not impossible, to break away from the hard-line teachings of Islam and its marriage to violent methods and jihad.
It is very important for those of other religions and those who don’t follow any religion at all to speak out against Islamic jihad and terrorism regardless of the pressure to remain quiet (from academics and government and Islamic groups) for fear of being labeled anti- Islamic. There are very real and important reasons why people in this and other forums are speaking out at this time. Most people were quite happy to get along with or ignore Islam before it turned so violent. Now it is hitting home. Had more people spoken out against the Nazis as they were climbing the ladder of evil then perhaps the carnage by the followers of fascist beliefs (resulting from a culmination of centuries of unchecked Christian distortions and prejudice) might have been prevented.
At this time we must assume that where there is smoke there is usually fire. Any hint of Islamic jihad or even the defense of radical Islamic beliefs and symbols must be challenged in the West. Muslims must speak out in greater numbers to make changes in their writings and actions which are presently in a collision course with the open, free and democratic western values. To suck up and placate/appease Muslims as a demonstration of our tolerance for their beliefs and diversity within our own communities will, in the end, reinforce bad behavior and endanger our citizens. To insist that Muslims make changes that will prevent jihad and make all of us more safe, secure and respectful of each other’s individuality might make Islam better and all of us more safe and secure.
Jerry,
I thought that Wilder was being facetious when he suggested getting ride of half of the Koran. The reforms as suggested would be like cutting out the heart of a person, what’s left couldn’t survive. So I agree with you.
Nor do I embrace Pipes’ view that “moderate Muslims are the solution.”
But as I wrote in America’s Limited Options, I would support a massive effort to strengthen true moderates or apostates or secularizerd Muslims providing it was coupled with an sustained attack on Islam as it is. Both parts of this policy would in effect discredit Islam. Presently PC affords too much protection. Islam must be discredited.
Larry is arguing for the same thing.
Here’s the choice. Attempt to destroy Islam by various means because it is a false religion thereby cutting one billion people adrift (which won’t happen) or publish a new Koran and promote it giving Muslims something to hold on to. These Muslims would become an agent for change. A reformed Islam would get a lot of support. A lot more than any attempt to destroy it would get.
Ted, while I agree with your comments and that of Wilders in Holland, Islam must simply be replaced. Half a Qu’ran, simply won’t do it. As I indicated in a Letter to the Editor of a local newspaper, the Pensacola New Journal, yesterday in response to a syndicated column by Kathleen Parker, any attempt to edit the Koran will be rejected because Muslim adherents believe that it is the ‘perfect words of Allah.’ So, the only solution is that being pushed by doughty advocates like Ibn Warraq, Dr. Wafa Sultan, the late Tashbih Sayyid and other thinking former Muslims: secularize and replace it.
To the Editor
Pensacola News Journal
Kathleen Parker’s Op Ed ‘It’s too soon to celebrate Muslim assimilation’ Pensacola News Journal, May 27, 2007 was right on the mark. Unlike other media, she didn’t gloss over the important findings of the Pew Research Center Survey of American Muslims. Given that 26% of American Muslim youths responding supported suicide attacks one wonders what is occurring in Mosques on Fridays. The so-called Fort Dix Six in New Jersey got their extremist Jihadi views from the al Qaeda websites and the Mosques in their vicinity. Freedom House in Washington, DC has published reports of what is contained in Islamic textbooks and other materials.
It is hard for most Americans to realize that the majority of Muslims owe their allegiance to the community of believers-the ummah – and not to this country that so generously let them in. Reform of Islam is difficult as they believe the canons of their faith-the Qu’ran and Hadiths (the Sayings of Muhammed) are the immutable word of Allah. Therefore, they consider what Christians and Jews believe in their ‘books’ are a distortion.
Jerome B. Gordon
Member of the Board
American Congress for Truth
Pensacola
Eh? “Larry Houle?” “personalrep1?” ??? What are you guys referring to? All I see is the link to Ted’s previous article and the one to Fjordman’s, whose point seems to be getting missed here–that “reform” as expressed in his article with reference to Wahhabism and Salafism could have the opposite result than reform within Christendom, because whereas religious violence is contrary to the Christian text (Bible), religious violence is consistent with the Islamic text, so a return to a back-to-the-text, literalist type of reform (such as Wahhabism) might yield an undesirable result. The way I understood Fjordman’s article is that Traditional Islam is better than the “reforms” of Salafis, much less Salafi-Takfiris. However, seems to me that even though Traditional Islam is less aggressive, when it comes to Israel, particularly Jerusalem, even this more “moderate” form of Islam would (based on the Quran and hadith) consider violence against Israel “defensive” jihad.
Ted, I agree with what you posted and would only add this :
I think I may have received this article from someone in the past several weeks. It is familiar.
The author does a good job of succinctly summing up the views of many who have posted to Israpundit and states his perspective very well.
Is there an attribution? Has this article appeared as an op-ed in the MSM?
Well stated articles should be reaching as many of the public as possible and for that such articles need an MSM venue.
As for putting one’s hope in “moderates” this article is making the rounds.
A man whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War Two owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.
“Very few people were true Nazis “he said,” but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.”
We are told again and again by “experts” and “talking heads” that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace.
Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam. The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history.
The fanatics march.
The fanatics wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide.
The fanatics systematically slaughter Christian & tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the continent in an Islamic wave.
It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder & honour kill.
The fanatics take over mosque after mosque.
The fanatics zealously spread the stoning & hanging of rape victims and impalement of homosexuals.
The hard quantifiable fact is that the “peaceful majority” the “silent majority” is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia comprised Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China’s huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.
The average Japanese individual prior to World War 2 was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel and bayonet.
And, who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were “peace loving”?
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims are the enemy if they don’t speak up, because like the German, they will awake and find that the fanatics own them and the end of their world will have come.
Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.
As for us who watch it all unfold; we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life.
Lastly, at the risk of offending, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, can contribute to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand.
You are right Bill. Reform is easy to propose and hard to do. If everything left must conform to “the good”, who is to define what good is. Further more “reason” has its difficulties. In Judaism we accept that there are certain things that we don’t understand but say we should accept them nevertheless because God has his reasons.
Once you look to reason, it becomes a man made religion rather then one from God. Better to go with Wilder and cut out half the Koran.
Dear Ted:
Exactly.
There is only one God – one Allah for all mankind. We all may worship God in different ways – BUT WE ALL WORSHIP THE SAME GOD. This God is a God of Peace and Love and Goodness. This a God that created all human beings as equals. This is a PERFECT GOD.
The Allah portrayed in the Koran of hate, bigotry, intolerance, sexism, murder, death and destruction, is not GOD. This ALLAH is the creation of evil men who basterized God for POWER.
We cannot out of political correctness allow Muslims to continue to believe that the Koran and its teachings are the word of Allah.
We cannot have people preaching hate and planning murder under the guise of freedom of speech and religious freedom.
We must challenge these evil teachings and FORCE the reform of Islam if Muslims themselves do not reform it.
In the Reformation of Islam we must start with the Declaration:
ALLAH AS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE – THE CREATOR OF ALL LIVING THINGS IS PERFECT.
ALL TEACHINGS OF ALLAH – A PERFECT GOD – MUST BE PERFECT
Every teaching in the Koran and all Islamic religious texts must be perfect. Any teachings of murder, killing, death and destruction, violence, hate, suicide bombers, violent jihad, terrorism, torture, maiming, wife beating, inferiority of woman, women as instruments of sexual pleasure in paradise, honor killings, stoning, cutting off limbs, child sex, bigotry, intolerance, slavery, inequality of infidels, inequality of any human being, that infidels can be murdered as a holy duty, that Muslims who renounce Islam can be killed, that Muslims (or anyone) who challenge the teachings of Islam can be murdered, etc are irrational AND NOT THE PERFECT TEACHINGS OF ALLAH.
The above teachings must be renounced, denounced and removed from the Koran.
Once this is done a New Modern Koran is published and every Mosque and every Iman must preach from this Reformed Koran.
Any Iman who refuses to do this must go out. If this reformation does not happen
then it is only a matter of time before an Islamic Fundamentalist smuggles a nuclear weapon into a major western city killing millions in the name of and to the greater glory of ALLAH. If the hateful teachings are not removed from Islam this is the disaster that will destroy civilization as we know it.
This brings me to the disaster of Iran.
The US must immediately impose DEFCON 1 sanctions against Iran.. Any war against Iran will be a disaster. We could lose 3500 soldiers in one day. Following are an innovative sanction regime – Defcon 1 to Defcon 4 – THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE THE SUPPORT OF RUSSIA, CHINA OR THE EU.
IT’S ALL ABOUT IRAN
A DRAMATIC NEW APPROACH TO IRANIAN SANCTIONS
We need to deal with Iran now otherwise the US could be left at one minute to midnight with no other option but to attack Iran. The longer the US waits to impose a meaningful sanction regime against Iran, the greater the necessity of military action will become – with all the potential disastrous political and economic consequences for both parties.
THE REALITY IS THE US DOES NOT NEED CHINA OR RUSSIA TO IMPOSE SANCTIONS AGAINST IRAN. THE US CAN IMPOSE DEVASTATING RECIPROCAL SANCTIONS
The United States with or without EU/Russia/China support immediately imposes economic and political sanctions against Iran. The sanction regime is divided into 4 parts – Defcom 1 to Defcom 4 with each phase commencing every 30 days and staying in effect until the crisis is resolved. Within the space of 4 months Iran will be under total world wide devastating economic sanctions. ANY INDIVIDUAL, CORPORATION, COUNTRY THAT DISOBEYS ANY PART OF THE SANCTION REGIME – THEN THE TOTALITY OF THE ENTIRE SANCTION REGIME IMMEDIATELY APPLIES TO THEM.
DEFCON 1 SANCTIONS
Under Defcon 1 sanctions Iran is immediately hit with the following measures:
1. The cutting off of all military and nuclear technology, materials, training, building including the Bushehr nuclear power plant being built by the Russians.
2. The suspension of all flights – both private and commercial aircraft in or out of Iran.
3. The worldwide banning of all Iranian passports.
4. Severing all banking relationships between all Iranian Government agencies/officials/organizations, banks, companies, front companies with the entire world banking community.
5. The freezing of all Iranian assets throughout the world including all assets of Iranian Government, Iranian companies, front companies, government officials/organizations.
DEFCON 2
In 30 days, if Iran refuses to stop all uranium enrichment and sit down at the table in good faith then the imposition of the following Defcon 2 Sanctions:
1. The immediate stoppage of all forms of transportation coming in or out of Iran including, buses, automobiles, boats. Only oil tankers would be exempt.
2. Cutting off of all satellite signals, phone lines, internet connections, electricity etc.
3. The complete closure of all border crossings to Iran.
4. The complete shutting down of all economic activity/trade with the outside world except for the importation of gasoline into Iran and the export of oil and gas out of Iran.
DEFCON 3
Thirty days after the imposition of Defcon 2 sanctions, the start of Defcon 3:
1. The importation of gasoline into Iran to be ceased by all countries, companies and individuals.
DEFCON 4
120 days after the start of the first sanction regime – Defcon 4 – the stoppage of all payments for Iranian oil and gas exports – NOT THE STOPPAGE OF THE EXPORT OF IRANIAN OIL AND GAS. JUST THE PAYMENTS FOR THESE PRODUCTS.
Iran can export oil and gas to China etc but the Chinese and other countries can not send money or any other financial instruments to Iran. In short – the oil/gas flows out but no money flows in. If Iran decides to stop the export of oil to certain countries but not to others like China, then under this sanction regime all countries including China must help the affected country or countries. In short, share the pain of oil shortages. If any country refuses to cooperate then the totality of these sanctions will be imposed immediately on them.
Again, if any country, company, or individual chooses to disobey these sanctions then THE TOTALITY OF THE SANCTIONS IMMEDIATELY APPLIES TO THEM. For example, if China decides to continue trading with Iran then all trade between China and ALL countries, companies, individuals immediately ceases. All Chinese container ships on their way to the US or any other country must be turned back. All international flights in or out of China cease. All Chinese passports to be null and void etc. If any country decides to continue to trade with China then the totality of the sanctions immediately applies to them. And so on.
This sanction regime is absolutely devastating. Having these sanctions apply to any country who decides to ignore them will totally devastate that countries economy. THIS LINKAGE GIVES THESE SANCTIONS TOUGH LOVE FURIOUS TEETH.
By,
Larry Houle
www. irandemocracy.net
E-mail: intermedusa@yahoo.com
Larry Houle has his own website I note, but can find nothing about him on the net. I am wondering whether personalrep1 from Germany actually represents Larry Houle or just finds that Larry Houle says all that personalrep1 wants to say on the subject.
There have been a relative handful of Muslims who have advocated that Islam be reformed. In speaking of reform, they do speak of goals such as Muslims need to follow an Islam that is introspective, peaceloving, tolerant of non-Muslim belief and which encourages freedom of thought and expression, but these would be reformers do not get into specifics.
As for what Larry Houle is saying:
Larry Houle, whether a Muslim or not, is really advocating that for Islam to reform, Muslims must excise the passages of the Koran that he cites as being imperfect expressions of Allah.
Just how does one do that? Who is going to do that and get Muslims to accept their views that parts of the Koran are not the true word of Allah, yet other passages are. Can the integrity of the Koran remain intact for most Muslims if parts are eviscerated?
It would be interesting to have a Muslim advocate for reform of Islam explain both the goals of Islamic reform being advocated as well as the specifics on how that goal is to be achieved.
If Muslim Islamic reform advocates have written on the subject with specificity, it would be helpful if those who are familiar with such writings to post the websites where these writings can be accessed.
Brave words Larry. The Allah you describe is little different from the Jewish God or the Christian God. As I said before, once you get rid of the bad parts you essentially have Judaism.
ALLAH – A PERFECT GOD – A GOD OF REASON
THE CREATION OF A NEW MODERN ISLAM
There needs to be a Reformation of Islam. All peace loving Muslims who believe in the teachings of an ALLAH of PEACE AND LOVE must stand up and demand the reform of Islam. If Islam is not reformed then it is no longer a religion but a totalitarian system on a par with Nazism, Communism and Fascism. To take man’s natural Concept of ALLAH, a conception of Peace and Love and Goodness, an all Wise, all Loving ALLAH for all mankind, and turn ALLAH – by bastardizing his teachings into a murderous ALLAH of hate, death and destruction, for the creation of a totalitarian system is one of the greatest sins that can be committed against ALLAH. The greatest danger mankind faces is the smuggling of a nuclear weapon by an Islamic Fundamentalist into a major western city killing millions in the name of and to the greater glory of ALLAH. If the hateful teachings are not removed from Islam this is the disaster that will destroy civilization as we know it. It will dramatically change human history forever.
In order to reform Islam we must start with the following declaration:
ALLAH AS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE – THE CREATOR OF ALL LIVING THINGS IS PERFECT.
ALLAH AS A PERFECT GOD – IS A GOD OF REASON
ALL TEACHINGS OF ALLAH – A PERFECT GOD – MUST BE PERFECT
ANY WRITINGS IN ANY RELIGIOUS TEXT THAT ARE NOT PERFECT ARE NOT THE TEACHINGS OF ALLAH BUT THE TEACHINGS OF MAN
AS A PERFECT GOD – A GOD OF REASON – ALLAH IS ALL PEACE AND LOVE AND GOODNESS
ALL MANKIND ARE THE CHILDREN OF ALLAH
ALL CHILDREN OF ALLAH ARE CREATED EQUAL AND THEIR LIVES ARE SACRED TO ALLAH
ALLAH IS NOT AN IRRATIONAL BEING. IF ALLAH IS IRRATIONAL THEN ALLAH IS NOT PERFECT AND THEREFORE SINCE ALLAH CANNOT BE IMPERFECT AN IRRATIONAL ALLAH IS NOT GOD
The above lays the intellectual framework for an Islamic Reformation.
All teachings in the Koran and all Islamic texts (written or verbal ) that are not PERFECT are not the teachings of ALLAH – A PERFECT GOD – A GOD OF REASON but the teachings of man. This means that all teachings recorded in the Koran and all other Islamic texts, revelations, writings, sayings, fatwas of murder, killing, death and destruction, violence, hate, suicide bombers, violent jihad, terrorism, torture, maiming, wife beating, inferiority of woman, women as instruments of sexual pleasure in paradise, honor killings, stoning, cutting off limbs, child sex, bigotry, intolerance, slavery, inequality of infidels, inequality of any human being, that infidels can be murdered as a holy duty, that Muslims who renounce Islam can be killed, that Muslims (or anyone) who challenge the teachings of Islam can be murdered, etc are irrational AND NOT THE PERFECT TEACHINGS OF ALLAH – A PERFECT GOD – A GOD OF REASON – A GOD OF ALL LOVE AND PEACE.
All Imams/ Fundamentalists who quote these phrases from the Koran are blaspheming against Allah.
Osma bin laden and all other terrorists who issue Fatwas calling for death and destruction are blaspheming Allah – A PERFECT GOD – A GOD OF REASON.
By teaching young Muslims that ALLAH IS A PERFECT GOD – A GOD OF REASON – that all the teachings of ALLAH – A PERFECT GOD MUST BE PERFECT we will occupy the moral and intellectual unassailable high ground. All the above mentioned teachings of Jihad, killing of infidels, terrorism etc are sins against ALLAH – A PERFECT GOD – A GOD OF LOVE AND PEACE. No ALLAH who is ALLAH would ever preach that killing and murdering of any human being in his name will be rewarded by accession to paradise. You cannot climb to heaven on the corpses of the murdered. No ALLAH who is ALLAH would ever create a Paradise full of big breasted sexual nymphs. All such teachings are the commands of evil men and false prophets. If ALLAH commanded that infidels (or any other human being) be killed then he would be irrational and evil and no longer PERFECT – no longer GOD.
This is the only way to rescue Islam from these brutal killers
Any Muslim who supports suicide bombers, acts of violence – if they continue to support this evil – are not muslims – they are blaspheming against the very essence of ALLAH – A GOD OF PEACE AND LOVE – A PERFECT GOD OF REASON. Any Muslim who commits acts of violence, acts of terrorism, acts of violent jihad in the name of ALLAH are not Muslims – they’re just MURDERERS. All teachings in the Koran that are not of ALLAH – A PERFECT GOD OF REASON – blaspheme ALLAH and are evil. They must be renounced and denounced totally and completely WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION. These teachings must be removed from the Koran and a NEW MODERN KORAN published. The publication of a MODERN KORAN will be an instant worldwide best seller.
In this way you can start to drive a stake through the heart of the evil irrational Islamic teachings.
Sincerely,
Larry Houle
http://www.godofreason.com
E-mail: intermedusa@yahoo.com