Must all persons share the burden in the same way?. I think this is the wrong way to look at the problem. Not all people share the burden of taxation. Society in all countries sanctions progressive taxations which applies different rates to different earners. America doesn’t have a draft. They have a voluntary army and simply raise the pay if not enough are volunteering. Israel could do the same or provide higher pensions for those that do enlist. Another way to look at it is that people who don’t serve must pay into a fund that reduces the financial hardship of those serving. Similarly those who run factories that pollute the air must buy environmental credits from those who reduce their pollution. Thus a company has the choice of investing in technology to clean the air or helping others that do.
The Arabs and the Haredim present two different problems but the solution can embrace the same idea, either they serve or they pay into a fund to support those who do. This should not be considered a penalty but a choice. Ted Belman.I received this opinion in an email:
Serve the State? Everyone must be equal? What Fascist rubbish! The State exists to serve the people. The people do not exist to serve the State. Furthermore there is a world of difference between equality before the law, equal opportunity and reducing everyone to the same mindless blob of protoplasm. It is well known that the very people who are always harping on the need for equality are the very same ones who created, man and defend Israel’s two level legal system and make sure that the wrong types are never promoted to senior positions in the Army or civil service.
So let us be clear about a few thing. Israel does not need a draft. The IDF is so bloated with militarily useless people that it can hardly move. We need a strong and professional military in Israel. We do not need a cult of militarism. All this rhetoric about how serving in the Army is the ultimate of Judaism, Zionism or whatever is total rubbish. We have an Army to protect us against our enemies and not as some sort of pseudo religion.
There are more than enough idealistic men willing to serve and even make a profession of the military in Israel to have a strong and professional Army. The true reason for the draft is to establish totalitarian control over the population. It is to use the IDF as a machine of indoctrination that will produce mindless drone that will blindly “Serve the State.”
That is why there is so much hatred and fear against the Hareidim. They will not be indoctrinated and abandon the service of G-D for the service of the State. They set a very bad example for everyone else. How in the world can you run a proper People’s Republic if everyone is allowed to maintain their own opinions? Terrible, truly terrible.
MK Rotem on Plesner Committee – They Won’t Solve the Problem
The Yeshiva World (Monday, July 2nd, 2012)
MK (Yisrael Beitenu) David Rotem spoke with Israel Radio on Monday morning, 11 Tammuz 5772. Rotem was a member of the Plesner Committee but resigned before shabbos over his party’s objections to the direction being taken by the committee. Yisrael Beitenu feels that “all citizens must share the burden” and when the committee decided the new draft law will not include Israeli Arab citizens, the decision was made to resign from the committee.
ROTEM: It does not matter what one’s hashkafa is. Everyone, all citizens must serve equally, Jews and Arabs alike. The committee is not going to solve the problem. There must be equal service for all, including hesder. There are going to be changes regarding hesder as well. Actually, one of the ideas we had was a hesder type military service for chareidim.
We basically feel that one who does not contribute may not receive benefits. It must be a two-way street. This includes arnona property tax, tuition assistance and mortgage assistance. No service means no government assistance.
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There is nowhere to go on the committee. One member for example, Dr. Stern feels the High Court is always wrong and the Tal Law was fine and it should not have been declared illegal. I quit along with others. The committee is not going to solve anything.
The law they are talking about is not “good enough” or “better than nothing” but it is a “bad law” since it remains discriminatory. For as long as all citizens don’t serve it is unacceptable and they are not addressing the need for Arabs to serve.
As a result, the bill presented by Yisrael Beitenu prior to the Plesner Committee will be introduced in Knesset. Kadima must support it since the entire justification given by Shaul Mofaz to enter the current coalition was the passing of a draft law. This is the law Kadima is looking for so if the party does not support it, the voters will know. You can’t simply lie so Kadima will have to face the music with our bill.
ISRAEL RADIO: Do you expect the prime minister and the coalition to support the Yisrael Beitenu bill?
ROTEM: Most certainly since the bill is the proper law, the one that the committee should be pushing. If you want equality then this is how to achieve it. If they wish to simply double talk, well this is a different story.
Kadima’s Dr. Nachman Shai was next, telling Israel Radio there were other conditions surrounding Kadima’s inclusion in the coalition as well, including advancing talks with the PA (Palestinian Authority) and changing the form of government in Israel.
RESHET BET: Will Kadima leave the coalition over the draft bill?
SHAI: Yes, for if it does not pass into law there is nothing for Kadima to do in such a coalition.
RESHET BET: Are you speaking on behalf of the official party leadership, in the name of Shaul Mofaz?
SHAI: This is the position that we accepted. I assume this would be the case if draft bill is not passed as promised. How can we explain our actions if the bill is not passed into law? This is why we are sitting in the coalition today.
RESHET BET: When you and others discussed this last night did Mofaz respond?
SHAI: No he did not. I can only say there may be colleagues whose main objective is to be part of the coalition but for me and many others, if we do not succeed in this mission we have no place in such a coalition.
@ Shy Guy:
Wrong, Wrong the Torah states without any ambiguity or doubt that holy men are to do Hashem’s bidding. They are G-d’s warriors and must be allowed to pursue their studies. Without prayer there is no Israel. I am getting sick and tired to read your secular claptrap.
@ Laura:
I don’t agree- The Heredim represent pure judaism. They are Hashem’s soldiers on earth.
Norman and Ed bring up valid points. Perhaps an all-volunteer army is the way to go.
NormanF Said:
I agree. Interestingly, both Manhigut Yehudit and now Ha’aretz also advocate a volunteer army.
Incorrect. The Torah obligates every Jew between the ages of 20 and 60 to serve at times of war.
I will not wallow into the inane excuses used by the “elites” to pretend that it is they and their offspring that “carry the burden”. They and most of their either receive a pass or are placed on special assignments made to fit their “superior status”.
Now about the PURPORTED replacement to the Tal Law. The LAW duly approved has been in place for several years until the poisonous Shelob Beinish’s aggregate “found it unconstitutional”.
The self elects courtiers not only declared a functioning Law unconstitutional by ordered the State to come up with a new one.
And we just heard the resulting abortion falling all over the state.
I have a few simple questions for the “va’adah mesaderet”* of occasion.
Will the 7000 or more shekels penalty apply as well to the non religious DRAFT dodgers?
Will the schools, or universities where the secular draft dodgers study be denied budgets as well?
Or those planned penalties akin to the Czars ukases apply only to the religious Jews?
* In Israel there is a self serving institution called “va’adot mesadrot”, “concocting COMMISSIONS” specially formed to prepare actions that otherwise would be at least unpleasant for the GoI elites.
Lets hear from the highly trained Law experts also on the waiver to the Arab population.
All of this bull shit is confusing to me. What is the reasoning about making everyone serve in the IDF if many will not use his rifle, drive a tank, fly a fighter jet, crew a naval vessel or any of the other fighting devises, with the concept that in the protection of his country, he will pull the trigger. If they can’t or will not do the courageous act of protecting Israel, what is the purpose of bodies in uniform?
Being in the IDF is akin to the greatest honor that one can have. The ultra Orthodox Jews are more of a liability than use and the Heredi can be extraordinary fighters because of their love of the land. The solution, in my mind, is that the useless have to pay in other ways, but nevertheless, they pay by contributing, by rule of law, other jobs deemed important like construction of military forts, air raid shelters, medics, local law enforcement or many others. The majority of Israelis will be honored to fight; however, it is equally important that the others contribute.
Abolishing the draft would eliminate a long-running source of conflict in Israel.
Why must anyone be forced to service? Its a notion antithetical to Jewish and liberal values.
The extreme Left, the Arabs and the Haredi should be allowed to live as they please.
Those who can and do want to volunteer for the IDF – there is no shortage of people willing to defend the country. It won’t be the end of the world if Israel gets a professional, all-volunteer army.
If the burden is defending the state of Israel, the Hareidim believe that their Torah study brings divine protection to the state just like or even more so than the IDF. And maybe there is something to their reasoning as Torah study predates the IDF by thousands of years and Jewish survival over the millennia is both miraculous and not explained in any other way. So if all must share in the burden, let the secular take up Torah study in earnest and invite the Hareidim to join the IDF. They are less likely to complain, as their stations would be manned.
The problem with this thinking is that if enough Israelis refused to serve in the IDF, then Israel could not properly be defended. I have no doubt that most Israelis would volunteer if given the choice, but Israel is far too small a nation to allow anyone to be exempt from serving. They aren’t serving the state, they are serving and defending the Israeli people. I believe Israelis resent the Haredim because of their refusal to contribute to the nation while taking welfare from it.