By Ted Belman
With each passing day criticism mounts from the left and the right on Obama’s decision to bomb Libya. It ranges from
1) he should have asked Congress
2) he should have done it earlier
3) he is leading us into a quagmire
4) goal should have been to remove Qaddafi
5) If there was no plan to remove Qaddafi, the bombing shouldn’t have started.
I have a different take. It was never an humanitarian mission. Qaddafi was attacking armed insurgents. Sure there was some collateral damage (non combatants being killed) but that wasn’t the goal. Not once did I hear the accusation against him of using disproportionate force or collective punishment. That’s reserved for Israel. For that matter neither did I hear it with respect to the bombing campaign.
Nor have we been informed who the “rebels” are. Why is the US fighting to protect them and to have them replace Qadaffi.
What a collossal error in judgement.
Greenland should be preserved from the desecration of the UN. I actually was thinking the relo should be to Tehran, before the giant earthquake swallows it up. Mogadishu, Somalia also works for me.
yamit: when I say I believe the experiment with limited war has been a failure, I do mean it. I hate to write this, but I think Israel should let Hamas in Gaza go further, and incur some casualties, before flattening the whole strip, while so much of the Arab League (and Egypt) has internal instability. Time to end this war, unconditional surrender, just like Truman insisted on with Germany and Japan.
Good Shabbos!
I have been saying this for a long time. In fact I have even suggested Greenland, North Korea (your choice of city), you get the idea.
Time to pull out of this worthless organization.
A lot! Loved it! 🙂
I forgot to mention that I currently think Islam is more than a “religion”. On other blogs, I now define Islam as an “Imperialist, Intolerant Ideology”.
BUT NEVER TRY TO DEFINE MY POLITICS! As an historian, I just try to explain, and certainly do not endorse the R2P doctrine now being used aginst Qaddhafi. I want the United Nations to pack up and relocate from New York to somewhere with no parking and no good restaurants.
Q is emulating Genghis Khan by laying siege to entire cities. I have some empathy for the Berbers of Zawara, but, because I have decided that “limited war” since WW2 has been a failure, maybe everyone should “go Genghis”.
It is kind of amusing watching the Americans and the British military bend over backwards to “avoid civilian collateral damage”. Maybe the IDf can give seminars on how that works out…
wow – all I did was try to EXPLAIN why the military action got sanctioned by the UNSC, and Yamit at least understood that I was explaining, not cheerleading.
My PERSONAL idea, from the beginning, NOT expressed here, was that Algeria and Egypt should both invade Libya, and Algeria gets the gas producing west, with the Berbers and the Touregs, and Egypt gets the oil producing east.
anyone who EVER tries to figure out my “political ideology” will always fail, because I have no ideological frame of relentless purity.
I DO think the world is greatly overpopulated: and that at least half of all the people currently alive should die by whatever;
would prefer that the recent major earthquakes had all hit Iran instead of Chile, New Zealand, and Japan;
think the United Nations and the experiment with “limited war” is a failure;
and, yes, I VOLUNTEER because I really can NOT stand living in THIS world, although I would like to see the Circassians completely screw Putin on the 2014 Sochi Olympics – that is it for things I look forward to.
It is only the rare expression of humanity of Yamit and Ted that even keeps me coming here.
I also firmly believe that Jews have a right to live and sleep anywhere they want (and can afford) without fear. If I were well enough to make aliyah, it would be to either the Golan or Ariel.
get a grip.
If the “rebels” win, will Libya be more or less Islamic than under Qazafi? For how long? Six months? Six years? Sixty?
Why is your Quija Board more accurate than anyone elses?
I wrote
Where did I do what you allege?
I think Ted you seek to close down the discussion
Are YOu for victory of Gadhafi over NATO
A yes or no is needed plus explanation
Thanks Ted
Just like you did with young Nathan Pearlstein
But I and 4international are not he!!!
Felix stop the foul language and the ad hominem attacks.
To the Jewish person who calls herself Birdalone, these are not personal issues, they are political issues, I do not know you personally, these are political positions that I am establishing
I repeat to you…Jews do not need you or your advice…which amounts to calling for the defeat of Gadhafi by NATO
I repeat
You defend this person who is on the side of the Empire which is raining down bombs on Gadhafi and his followers
And you ask me
You are losing your marbles and I will not waste any time with you.
Readers if interested in this controversy can turn to
http://4international.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/teh-opportunism-of-emperors-clothes-jared-israel-and-the-jewish-blogland-swamp-also-towards-libya/
Where have I said I am for war against Gadaffi? Where?
I am still against toppling Gadafi mostly based on the interested parties lined up against him and who I believe would replace him. I am perfectly aware of connections you and others suggest might be a precursor for what they intend to do here in Israel. Bird Like most good hearted folk is rightly concerned for the lives of innocents and believes Gaddafi will not be selective on who he takes out his vengeance. I would agree that he wouldn’t. Unlike Bird and other good hearted folk I don’t give a damn they know how to survive, they’ve been doing it for thousands of years
I reject this statement of yours
“Tweet Tweet Birdalong Just you tweet back to your comfy little nest! Jews do not need your kind of Jews any more!”
<
I repeat to one and all. Jews if to survive DO NOT NEED TE PRO EMPIRE VIEWS OF THIS PERSON
Nor you Yamit. Nor belman who always sits on the fence
This is where I stand
http://4international.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/4international-we-will-defend-gadhafi-uncondionally/
Yamit
Explain this
You think it is about sitting at a computer being smart
Obama and the US is BOMBING Libya
So then Yamit take your sorry ass up to Libya and join in with Obama in the war against gadhafi. You are a friggin creep.
One day you defend Hadhafi
next you are for war on him
I am finished with you
Thank you Yamit. No other government is laying siege to entire cities. Libya is different in that Qaddhafi cut the water and electricity and telcom in Berber-Zawara, Zawiya, and Misrata while sending in tanks and other armored ground forces to subdue those cities which had local “freedom fighters” in control of local governance(today’s new term for opponents/rebels). Misrata has not had water or electricity for ten days, let alone food or medical supplies. Today’s news seems as if the allies figured out how to take out Q’s tanks solely with air power in Misrata overnight, without civilian casualties.
Hamas seems to be trying to create the fiction that they “deserve R2P” with their mortar attacks and unfortunate accidental killing of civilians in Gaza when the IDF responded. I found it quite incredible that even the NYT noted that Gaza neighbors confirmed that Hamas had launched the mortars from the orchard nearby. And the provocation of the bomb attack in central Jerusalem is not going to help Hamas’ image, if they take credit. I kind of think whoever did that was really annoyed that the “plight of the palestinians” is not the center of the world’s attention these days.
Israel needs to worry about Egypt and Gaza, not Libya.
Felix Bird is correct that the opposition is a mixed bag of assorted malcontents. I believe her when she says Gaddafi is brutally suppressing them. I wish we would do something similar with the Arabs in Gaza and Y&S. Like Egypt and the rest of the ME, the only organized opposition groups are the most radical Islamic fundamentalists. There are no good or nice guys to root for only who is best, based on our perceived national interest.
Felix Bird is usually correct in her information and her analysis of that information. She is smarter than you and better informed, head to head you lose by the widest margin, so before you you start assigning others their places, first look to your own if you have a place to call your own.
The whole lesson in this and there really is only the one lesson, in order to win you have got to fight
saif the son of gaddafi said early on “We are Libyans. We live here! We die here!
In his good but meagre English
But no worries! The message was and is universal!
Tweet Tweet Birdalong Just you tweet back to your comfy little nest! Jews do not need your kind of Jews any more!
Great analysis Ted, Yamit and jrob
As I said before the guy has balls.
He may have done this and that, and hhe may not, how to pierce the fog of lies of the Media, any Serb will affirm that
But it is now a small nation of 4 to 6 millions in a few towns along a coast, and against that the whole force of “Empire/Sharia Alliance”
But big mouth public school boy BANKER Cameron will have to put his squaddies on the turf or else murder Gaddafi. Gaddafi has now won. last night on a Spanish TV debate the poll taken among listeners was 80 against the war, 20 for, and the 20 for was getting less by the minute
Gaddafi wins
And that is just bloody brilliant for every Jew worth their salt on earth!
I wonder what France’s payoff is, for pushing this.
Qaddafi is trying to fight off US backed jihadists. Nothing wrong with that.
And our domestic big-lie media can hardly be trusted to tell the truth about who is slaughtering whom.
Ted, I completely agree with you on all points. Cheers, from Guangzhou, China
Just saw O’Riley on Fox. What a schmuck! Same with Megan Kelley, Monica Crowley got it right as did liberal Alan Colmes!
Who are Libya’s rebels?
http://www.nolanchart.com/article8465.html
The undertones of the Libyan revolt are tinged with religious fundamentalism, rather than liberal democracy.
The revolt was started in Benghazi on February 15-17th by the group called the National Conference of the Libyan Opposition. The protests had a clear fundamentalist religious motivation, and were convened to commemorate the 2006 Danish cartoons protests, which had been particularly violent in Benghazi.
The NCLO web site (Arabic) carries a document (Arabic; Google Cache; legible in automatic translation) dated February 15th (the day the protests began), which clearly spells out NCLO’s objections to Qaddafi’s rule. The main points of “Qaddafi: Islam’s no. 1 enemy” are as follows:
* Qaddafi has closed an Islamic university and a seminary, has forbidden some Islamist publications, and has thrown thousands of Islamist activists into jail.
* Qaddafi has urged to put the Qur’an on the shelf, as no longer appropriate for this age.
* Qaddafi has made fun of the Islamic veil, calling it a “rag” and a “tent”.
* Qaddafi has dared to say that Christians and Jews should be allowed to visit Mecca.
* Qaddafi has rejected the Hadith and Sunnah, and said he follows the Qur’an alone.
(The last claim involves a curious episode. At one point, Qaddafi declared himself a follower of the “Qur’an alone” movement, which rejects orthodox Muslim punishments, like stoning for adultery, death penalty for homosexuals etc. This got him into some serious trouble. An international committee of scholars went to discuss the issue with Qaddafi. After being told that “if he did not repent and take back his statement, he would fall under the law of renegades and infidels […] which would force true Muslims to kill him”, Qaddafi “repented and took back his statement”.)
Al-Qaeda nd America on the same side?
Al-Qaeda branch warns Libyan rebels against America
The leader of al—Qaeda’s North Africa branch has urged Libyan rebels not to trust America and the U.S. role in the international coalition bombing Moammar Qadhafi’s forces.
Abdelmalek Droukdel of Al—Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb claims the same America now attacking Col. Qadhafi turned a “blind eye” in the past on his crimes against Libyans.
Droukdel, also known as Abu Musab Abdul—Wadud, says America got Col. Qadhafi to give up weapons of mass destruction and Libyan oil so he could stay in power. The statement was posted on Monday on a militant website.
It says “winds of liberation have started blowing in Libya” and urges Tunisians, Egyptians and Algerians to help their Libyan brethren fight Col. Qadhafi.
Al—Qaeda has lobbied for Col. Qadhafi’s overthrow and the establishment of Islamic rule in Libya.
Read this it explains what the MSM is ignoring or ignorant of!
Al Qaeda offers aid to rebels in Libya
One concern for U.S. officials has been the status of Libya’s remaining stocks of mustard gas. Analysts generally think Libya has about 14 tons of the blistering agent.
White House National Security Council spokesman Thomas Vietor said the United States had “no information to suggest” the chaos in Libya has “placed Libya’s [chemical weapons] material at risk of unauthorized access.”
But he added: “However, as even the possibility of [chemical weapons] material falling into the wrong hands is deeply concerning, we are doing what we can to maintain awareness as to the security of these materials
Obama’s Libya fiasco
By Ted Belman
Nor have we been informed who the “rebels” are. Why is the US fighting to protect them and to have them replace Qadaffi.
Hint: Al Qaeda offers aid to rebels in Libya
Bin Laden gets Gadhafi blame
Al Qaeda’s North Africa affiliate publicly offered its assistance and support to rebels in Libya who are fighting to wrest control of the country from troops still loyal to Col. Moammar Gadhafi.
Al Qaeda has endorsed the uprisings in Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt and now Libya.
Frances Townsend, who was a homeland security adviser to President George W. Bush, said “I do worry because AQIM has training, recruiting and operational capability, and they could lend that capability to what remains of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group,”
The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group was the jihadist opposition to Col. Gadhafi. The group was formed by Libyan fighters who joined bin Laden in the 1980s to oust the Soviets from Afghanistan. Upon their return to Libya, they formed the organization, although it formally split with al Qaeda after Sept. 11, 2001, citing a difference over whether it is justified to kill civilians.
“Gadhafi crushed them,” Ms. Townsend said, noting that many of the leaders of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group were sent to prison and then reintegrated into society through deradicalization programs.
“My concern has always been that AQIM could conceivably lend support to the remnants of the LIFG as an attempt to take advantage of the chaos,” Ms. Townsend said.
AQIM was originally formed in the 1990s as the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat, a faction of the Algeria-based Armed Islamic Group. In 2006, the Salafist Group changed its name to AQIM after merging formally with al Qaeda.
The group has focused its fighting over the years on Algerian and other North African targets. This month, the group publicly threatened to assassinate Mauritania’s president because of his ties to the French government.
Evan Kohlmann, a terrorism specialist with the Nine Eleven Finding Answers Foundation, said Libya presents an ideal opportunity for the AQIM.
Ted: even tho Obama was pushed into this by France and UK, it is all about the Responsibility to Protect. Qaddhafi cut the water and electricity to Misrata, Libya’s 4th largest city, nine days ago, and his ground forces indiscriminately kill civilians every day. Same thing with Zawiya. THAT was the evidence that got the UNSC to act.
and Obama even named those cities on Friday. Your points are all valid, but, if the ‘allies’ can do something for Misrata (today, Admiral Locklear said they were working on that ‘solution’) then it becomes clearer that R2P was the trigger. which will certainly be a major campaign issue. as of today, only conservative blogs are discussing R2P, and the issue of UN sovereignty – the liberal blogs are still twisted that Obama actually fired cruise missiles 🙂
as to the “rebels”. if you read enough, it is a mixed bag of just about everyone, but not dominated in any way by jihadis.
Zawara is almost all Berber, all in opposition. Zawara has been cut off for even longer than Misrata. 40,000 people who might not have water or food, under occupation. or, maybe they all fled to Tunisia.
very complex to follow, but you should see what happens in Misrata.
hey , might get lucky and have Hezbollah relocate to take Qaddhafi out. They hate him more than anyone else for the 1978 murder of Musa al Sadr. yeah, too much to hope Hezbollah takes their missiles and invades Tripoli…