Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is convinced that one of the most important decisions of the upcoming election will be who leads the country against Iran. In an interview to Israel Hayom, he warns about the dangers of rejoining the 2015 nuclear deal and points to the next step in the country’s vaccination campaign: Children.
By Boaz Bismuth and Amnon Lord, ISRAEL HAYOM
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu speaks to Israel Hayom a month before the election | Photo: Eric Sultan
“We’ll be done with the vaccinations in March, the beginning of April. That’s for the adult population. Then “Then, vaccines for children will start arriving,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tells Israel Hayom‘s political supplement in a special weekend interview.
“I assume that [regulators] will approve them in April and May, and we’ll receive them immediately after that. We are already in contact with two big companies. I’m personally in contact with their CEOs. Either it will be the same vaccine, or an adapted one. There will also be vaccines adapted to the different variants that are developing. We’re in negotiations for tens of millions of doses of vaccines,” Netanyahu says.
Netanyahu believes that Israel will be able to emerge from the COVID crisis as a leading nation and will benefit from contracts with pharmaceutical companies to produce their vaccines locally. In February 2020, there was background chatter about a new pandemic, coronavirus, that was about to hit us. Netanyahu said that it would be long and difficult, and a year on, the question remains – how much longer will we have to live with this thing – the restrictions, the spread, and the masks.
“The masks? That will take time. Children make up a quarter of Israel’s population. We’ll have to develop other capabilities. We are living in an age of pandemics. I took care that Israel would lead the world – not only in terms of acquiring – to the next vaccine. The intent is to make Israel a vital link in the global vaccine supply chain,” he says.
Before the start of the interview, during a few minutes of photographs in the meeting room next to his office, Netanyahu practices singing a pop hit, working carefully on the rising and falling intonation and the rhythm. Then he recalls Netta Barzilani’s hit song. His mood might be the result of the assessment in the Likud that their position is better than what the polls are showing going into the election. The secret weapon that worked in the previous elections is the “elector” program, which is designed to rope in “passive” Likud supporters in the days before the vote and on Election Day itself, who could be worth some 10 seats. But before the ballot box, the vaccines are the most pressing issue, as well as sending the children who are still at home back to school.
Q: Isn’t it possible to require teachers to get vaccinated?
“There is a legal problem with that, and in general I’m running into endless legal problems. There is a reason why OECD representatives said that Israel is the most bureaucratic and most legalistic country. The law needs to adapt to life, not life to the law. Protecting the health of the people, like defense, demands changes to the law – so we change the law. I still haven’t managed to get that insight to sink into all the systems in Israel. Over-litigiousness is a national plague as much as the absence of law is.”
Q: Why aren’t 10th graders in school?
“Because they can learn via Zoom, and the lower grades can’t, as much. They also spread the virus. But we’ll let them back during March.”
Q: People are talking about diplomacy through vaccines. We have vaccines to give. Did you propose it, or did other leaders reach out to ask for them?
“About 30 countries reached out to us. Everyone wanted to know how we created this miracle and everyone wanted to take part in it, both in terms of knowledge and assistance. The situation is difficult all over the world. Of course, the media in Israel doesn’t talk about that, but only about the problems and difficulties here. The media abroad talks about the Israeli miracle. We are poised to get rid of COVID among adults over age 16. To open the economy. No country offers a privilege like the green passport. I set a policy line – vaccinate our own people first. First of all, we guarantee that we have a supply for every citizen, and then some. I agreed with Pfizer that we would have a steady supply so there would be no need to stop administering second doses. We can move ahead at full speed, and by March, we’ll be done vaccinating the country’s adult population. We are giving away the surplus vaccines. We’d like to give more to other countries and entities.”
Q: Data from ‘Worldometer’ shows we have some 715,000 recovered COVID patients. The death toll is over 5,500. That shows that there is still a high rate of spread and what we did didn’t work – other than the treatment the medical workers are able to provide to patients, and the vaccines. Everything between those two things didn’t work.
“First of all, you need to understand – there is no other solution, and I realized that from the start. Every loss of a human life is a tragedy. But we need to look at things in terms of the size of the country. Belgium has 22,000 dead. They’re our size. In the Czech Republic, 19,000 died. Sweden, which was supposed to be a model country, has 12,000 dead. Britain, seven times our size, has 120,000 dead. They have four times as many [COVID] deaths as we do, proportionally to the size of their populations. Israel is in a less bad situation that other countries.
“But there’s no doubt that the real solution is the vaccines, so I acted in time. I got there before other countries to ensure a supply that allows us to be the first to see an end to COVID, by a large margin. I remind you that over 90% of the mortality and morbidity has been in people age 50 and over. And if people age 50 and over are reading this – go get vaccinated. Don’t believe the fake news. The vaccine is natural. What is unnatural is COVID. If it weren’t for the age of vaccines, and today there are people saying that they are something “unnatural,” the average life expectancy would be 30. The fact that they discovered vaccines for smallpox and other diseases has raised the average life expectancy to 80-something.”
The conversation with Biden was helpful
Q: There is a sense that we’re going to move fairly quickly from a pandemic agenda to one of a “diplomatic winter,” primarily with the US making a rapid return to the Iran nuclear deal. There is also talk about a return to the two states for two peoples solution.
“I think that the upcoming election is about who will be the next prime minister – Yair Lapid or I. Ask any citizen who stood up to the pressure from American administrations, and there were a few that wanted to push us back to the 1967 borders and put us in grave danger. Lapid said that the solution, as far as he was concerned, was to uproot 100,000 Jews and make concessions and withdrawals that would put our security at risk. So the opposite – the Americans are able to respect our strong stance, both on the political matter and the Iranian issue.
“That’s another question. Who will stand up to Iran. Lapid, or I? I, who am leading the global opposition to Iran getting nuclear weapons, or Lapid, who supported the deal along with his friends? These two issues aren’t the only ones. Who will jump-start our economy? I, who brought the economic revolution to Israel, who already got Israel out of a major economic crisis, or Lapid, who was the worst finance minister we’ve had? Who brought millions of vaccines and who will bring millions more? Lapid, who said that we’d only have five doses? He was only off by a factor of a million.”
Q: But the problem isn’t your dispute with Benny Gantz, Lapid, or the Left, but with US President Joe Biden and his people.
“I’ve proven that I can protect the state of Israel’s vital interests against pressures that no other prime minister has withstood.”
Q: But the Iran deal was still made. Full of holes, but a deal.
“The opposition I led in my speech to Congress led to public opinion in the US continuing to see Iran as a hostile entity, as is still the case today, so when the administration changed, they withdrew from the deal. But I’m not saying the struggle to keep Iran from nuclearizing is over – the opposite, it continues. Iran having nuclear bombs would be an existential threat to Israel. The battle to prevent that will be the next government’s top priority. Who will do that – Lapid, with his partners Gideon Sa’ar and Naftali Bennett? Or I, who led and am still leading the worldwide opposition to it. As long as I am prime minister, Iran won’t get a nuclear weapon. I will do whatever has to be done to prevent that, and I’ve told that to President Biden, as well. With or without a deal.”
Q: In other words, in the current situation, the only solution that remains is a military one.
“Why? We’ve taken lots of different courses of action. I won’t go into details about everything we’ve done – diplomatic pressure, passing economic and other types of sanctions against Iran, even under Obama. Intelligence activity, actions such as the amazing seizure of the Tehran nuclear archive and making that material public, showing its plans and violations to secure nuclear weapons, and other methods I won’t discuss at the moment.”
Q: You mentioned the conversation with Biden.
“After my conversation with Biden, the Iranian issue was given top priority. If it hadn’t been for the actions I’ve spearheaded in the past decade, Iran would already have a nuclear arsenal that would threaten our very existence. According to their plans, they were supposed to have already developed a bomb and they aren’t there because of the opposition we are leading. Of course, this is a subject that people want to obscure, but it will be the first mission for the next prime minister of Israel.”
Rejoin the deal? We aren’t in 2015
Q: Biden, Clinton, and Obama – not exactly ideological partners. But under Obama, there was still talk of a military option. Biden, at least outwardly, isn’t talking about any military option. Given no other choice, would he take it?
“I’m not talking about Biden. He talks on his own behalf. He says that he opposes Iran having nuclear weapons. I’m happy to hear that from him. But I’m not leaving the fate of the Jewish state in anyone else’s hands, not even our best friends. I am keeping and developing options to prevent an Iranian nuclear weapon at any cost. That’s what we’ve done, and that’s what we will continue to do. I won’t go into any further details.”
Q: This leads us to the question, assuming that we will have to be much more proactive, of whether the change of administration in the US has brought the region closer to war.
“I argue that going back to the previous nuclear deal is a terrible mistake. First of all, because we aren’t in 2015 and Iran has made progress, thanks to the deal, which gives it a shocking loophole for centrifuges that enrich uranium, the core of an atomic bomb, at much faster speed. Aside from that, it’s also violating the deal. So from both ends, by both complying with the deal and violating it, Iran in 2021 is not the Iran of 2015. Rejoining the deal that paved its way to a nuclear arsenal would be a terrible mistake that would put not only us but the entire region under a threat, and as a result we would have lots of countries in the Middle East nuclearizing. That would be an awful development in human history and I’ll do everything in my power to prevent it.”
Q: And the pressure won’t kill our peace agreements with the United Arab Emirates and Morocco?
“The opposite – they will strengthen the agreements. Because every country that is worried about its regime collapsing due to Iranian aggression and subversive activity sees us as another level of their defenses because of the determination with which I am leading the opposition to Iran. These states’ realization that Israel is a vital ally for them is a basic component, along with our technological and economic abilities, which astonish them. I would say that the perception of peace between us and the Arab world has changed completely. I cancelled the existing Palestinian veto, which didn’t allow us to break into that area and implement our interests – economic and security – with Arab countries. That must not be put back in place.”
Q: Because Iran threatens both the Emirates and Saudi Arabia, and they have relations with Iran as well as with us, a US administration like the Biden one could cause them to move closer to Tehran and away from us.
“The rule in place in the diplomatic arena is Jabotinsky’s pressure theory. If one side pushes in a direction that is negative for you, you need to push back and balance them. It’s a never-ending effort, an ongoing one. It doesn’t end. I bring in pressure from the other direction, both by integrating interests with Arab states and by opposing the US administration’s contacts, and with US and global public opinion. Thus far, through enormous effort, we’ve managed to keep Iran from nuclearizing and crossing the red lines I set back in the day. I’m not saying the effort is over. The question needs to be, who will carry it on?
Q: When the Jewish Chronicle reports that Israel brought in a one-ton bomb and used it for some action, is that message intended for someone?
“I don’t talk about messages. I also don’t talk about actions. I talk about policy. My policy is to prevent, in any way possible – open or covert, diplomatic or public, economic or military – Iran from developing nuclear weapons. If they get nuclear weapons, they will be able to attack us directly or open a nuclear umbrella over our heads and use it for a conventional attack that would employ massive missile barrages and precision missiles. History will change when that happens.
“In the end, it all comes down to our history as a people. 2,500 years ago another Persian tyrant thought that he could wipe out the Jewish people, and he failed. I say to the tyrants who want to annihilate the Jewish state – you will fail, too. We have the courage and the faith and the determination to defend our country and we won’t let the ayatollah regime stop 3,000 and more years of Jewish history. To delay Iran, two basic things are necessary: first, a credible military option. Second, economic pressure. We have managed to maintain both of these over the years and we will need to do so in the years to come.”
Q: What do you think about the attacks on IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Aviv Kochavi after his speech about Israel’s Iran policy?
“I think it’s absurd. Most of the public supports the strong policy that I am leading.”
Not afraid of the heat in the kitchen
Q: Some claim that the International Criminal Court at The Hague is always taking things forward and turning up the flames against us, and our reactions are lukewarm. We aren’t deterring the Palestinians from continuing to take action in the ICC. For example, by deciding to step up settlement or develop E1 as a response to the Hague’s decision.
“I think that we are handling it at different levels. I prefer not to discuss it. Happily, there hasn’t been any implementation of the court’s scandalous decision, which says that living in Jerusalem is a war crime. Or saying that our soldiers, who are second to none when it comes to avoiding civilian casualties, and who are fighting terrorists who are second to none when it comes to intentionally harming civilians, are committing war crimes. It’s absurd, a scandal. I’ve spoken out against this decision with dozens of leaders in the past few weeks. I hope we can get this insane idea off the table. I don’t want to go into details. The solutions brought up in the supposedly populist right-wing discourse are not an effective route. The effective route is the one that gets results. Thus far, we’ve gotten results.”
Q: You’re being accused of something more serious – not being able to unite the right-wing voters, and that some right-wing voters are threatening to elect a left-wing government.
“About 70% of the citizens of Israel are right-wing. There is an enormous attempt by the media to divide the camp. We are a step away from a historic opportunity to form a completely right-wing government, a stable, strong one under my leadership. But there is also the alternative possibility of a completely left-wing or partially left-wing government. They would have a rotation [for prime minister]. How many people in Israel want to see a rotation? Four. Not four percent – four! It’s absurd, after we’ve been through this unforgettable experience of rotations and shared power.
“Anyone who votes for Bennett and Gideon Sa’ar is actually moving votes from the Right to the Left. And it’s no coincidence that you’re seeing left-wing analysts in TV studios encouraging people to vote for them. Why? Do they want to see a right-wing government? It’s because they understand that it will keep us from this one-time opportunity to form a true, stable, strong right-wing government under my leadership. I believe that in the month that is left people will wake up.”
Q: How many seats does the Likud need to get to achieve that goal, so the Right will have 61 seats?
“Right now we’re at 30 seats with 60 for the [right-wing] bloc. What we are seeing is something amazing – a bloc of nearly 10 seats from Likud voters who are staying home. Our job is to get them to the polls. In the last election, we needed to bring out some 300,000 voters and we did it. Now we have a mission to bring nine to 10 seats [worth of votes] to the polls. They need to come and vote. I believe it’s possible. Bennett and Sa’ar are not explaining that they don’t have any way of forming a government without Lapid and [Labor leader] Merav Michaeli and Meretz and the Joint Arab List. Bennett made a surplus vote deal with Gideon. That means, he is transferring votes from the Right to the Left.”
Q: You ran your first election campaign 25 years ago. What is the difference between then and now?
“The huge difference is that today, we don’t have a campaign. Today, we have achievements. Today, the voters see what is happening and that has nothing to do with slogans or campaign ads. This is tangible achievement. That is what’s different in this election.”
Q: Maybe the major change is in your attitude toward the Arab public?
“An enormous, historic change.”
Q: You used to call them ‘the non-Jewish public.’ Now you say, ‘the Arab society.’
“I also say ‘Arabs.’ I looked into how much we were investing in the Arab public. I saw the struggle between progress and the discrimination of radical Islam. I always wanted to see the Arabs opt for progress and integrate into the state of Israel. I checked how much I invested from 2011 to today – it’s not just the 15 billion shekels to close the gaps, but 21 billion shekels because we also gave billions to the Bedouin in northern Israel and the south. To the Druze to increase security. The employment plan.
“This is the nation-state of the Jewish people, but there have to be equal opportunities for every citizen, which was also Jabotinsky’s view. The big difference is that today, the Arab public’s eyes have been opened. I told them: don’t vote for the Joint Arab List, because it doesn’t represent you. It radicalizes the discourse. It drags you to an impasse of clashing with Zionism, of supporting terrorism. To the narrative of the Palestinian Authority and Hamas.
“We set up nine police stations in the Arab sector. There used to be one. I was in Acre, a model of co-existence and containing crime. This week we were also in Jawarish, in Ramle. For six months, there was nothing there. Today, there is a minister and a police commissioner who are battling crime tooth and nail so that kids will be able to go out into the streets without fear of being shot. And they see the four peace agreements and the fact that the Joint Arab List opposed them. It created a change. It’s not just that we’re changing the relations between Arabs and Jews outside Israel, we’re changing the relations in Israel.”
Q: How did it happen that most of the people known as ‘princes’ of the Likud left the party and are fighting you?
“I don’t know. Ask them. I haven’t changed my path, not my civil agenda or my security agenda, which says that we need to prepare for war so we can secure peace. Or my political agenda, which says that need to appeal to public opinion and to a real, incisive discourse to guarantee the country’s future. They moved to the other camp. That’s their right. I don’t want to play psychologist.”
Q: A lot of them wave Jabotinsky’s books and say that the Likud, under your leadership, is no longer liberal.
“I’m very liberal. I’m liberal in the classic 19th-century sense of economic liberalism with a central social component. You can’t take care of a society without a free economy, because otherwise the economy shrinks, and you don’t have the resources to meet the public’s needs. Only a growing economy. I believe in the rights of the individual. And freedom in all areas.”
Q: Do the attacks by the media strengthen you?
“They strengthen me on the inside. In general, to do what I do I need the mental strength to withstand endless attacks, every hour of every day, against me. Against my wife, my children. It demands a deep sense of devotion. Without that there is no point to all this effort. There is a sense of a very large public who over the years has freed itself from the grips of that media, the provincial media, and understood the truths I’m telling here. The enormous public support is what gives me the strength to continue the mission. Do the attacks on me strengthen me from outside? I think that without them, we’d have 50 seats.”
Q: So they are effective.
“Obviously. If you have a majority of 70% who are right-wing, then you’re supposed to get a big part of that. The unchecked attacks influence some of the public. I’m not looking to curry favor, I’m not built for that. They ask how I stand it. I ask – what choices do I have? To not stand it? To bow my head? To say things I don’t believe? Do things I think will endanger the state of Israel? If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, Truman said. I can stand the heat, I definitely can.”
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