T. Belman. This encourages me to believe that Liberman and the religious parties will cut a deal and Liberman will join the Right again. The only question is will he agree to Immunity for Bibi?
The following is a translation of an excerpt of a post by Avigdor Liberman
on his Facebook page on 20 September, 2019
After counting almost 100% of the votes and before the meetings with the
president begin, a few updates:
…
4. In recent days, I have suddenly heard new music from the leaders of the
ultra-Orthodox parties. There are no more nicknames such as Amalek and
Hitler and there is a call to stop the hate talk. I warmly welcome it. For
us, and I have made it clear in the past, the ultra-Orthodox parties are not
an enemy, but a political rival. We follow different approaches. They are
Beit Shamai and we are Beit Hillel.On issues of religion and state, we have reached a crossroads that requires
a decision between the two approaches. Not a compromise, but a decision.It is important to clarify once again what is the minimum threshold for us
regarding religion and state:
– the Draft Law as written
– civil marriage
– conversion by the rabbis of cities
– Restoring the Western Wall Outline
– Core studies in ultra-Orthodox educational institutions
– Public transport and opening supermarkets on Saturday. The last two issues
will be within the authority of the local government according to the nature
of the community in each locality.We will not agree to less than that, even at the cost of sitting in the
opposition.
How could being at the mercy of the government be any different from the Haredim capitulating to LIeberman’s demands, which would amount to complete surrender? In the absence of a narrow right wing government, doesn’t it make more sense for them to prefer a continual round of new elections which would mean a continuation of their hegemony in these areas, by default?
@ yamit82:
Yamit has a point and the knowledge and experience to back it up.
Just to make it interesting would think that perhaps the best case would be Liberman, Netanyahu and his package of 55, for the following:
1) With 1.25 years remaining in what could be a one term presidency, Israel may need to undertake certain operations with the present POTUS in office. Unfortunately when it comes to initiating operations, Netanyahu can not be relied upon to know when to end the chronic procrastination.
Lieberman represents such a catalyst.
2) Lieberman can serve as a fig leaf for Netanyahu.
3) Lieberman’s agenda is reasonable and stands the best chance at facilitating a new unity in Israeli society this century. Haredi Communities need a secular education to support themselves and they must serve in The IDF, or be banished.
Death Penalty for Terrorists is long overdue. Lack of the death penalty has acted as an enticement to those who wish to not only be considered a hero or martyr, but life in an Israeli Prison is not sooo awful with the salary coming in from The PA or Hamas.
@ Bear Klein:
There are certain red lines the religious won’t cross and will press for new elections. I favor new elections rather than giving Leberman the power he now holds… caretaker gov is not so bad and no peace deal, can be imposed on us by Herr Trump. All parties will take stock of their situation and errors and maybe correct enough to get a clear electoral decision… This is also true of Israeli voters.
@ Edgar G.: All very true, Edgar.
@ Ted Belman: Gantz and Lapid have already committed themselves to governing with the Arab anti-Zionists. Only Lapid has said so in so many words, but Gantz, though very tight-lipped, through his move immediately after the elections to request talks with the anti-Zionist Arab leader. The interviews given by Odeh show he is very confident that he will be included in the government, either officially or unofficially. The Jerusalem Post’s endorsement of the inclusion of the anti-Zionist, “Palestinian” parties is also part of this picture. It should have been obvious to everyone that its editors wanted Bibi out at any cost, and much preferred Gantz. But they knew that he would not be able to oust Bibi without the support of the “Palestinian Israelis.” It seems to me that the Jerusalem editorial staff would not have undertaken such a bold move unless they knew they had political backing.
@ Edgar G.:
Don’t know how that happened. I was answering Adam, and got Bear…well no matter, The edit time of 4.47 also didn’t appear…Odd this time it did…. Temperamental machinery. Perhaps, buoyed by the news that the first artificial intelligence chip has been produced in Haifa recently.t…!!..
@ Bear Klein:
Yes Aadm, continuty and contumely…..I’ve written about that very period when Jew murdered Jew, whilst the Goyim were coming to slaughter them all. In fact just a few days ago I suggested that the Israeli Jews were “mashugga” for giving so many votes to 4 failed generals/political neohytes..
Let’s look at this through the eyes of the Hareidim. They hate to give an inch but are faced with tough choices. First, if they are not part of the government they are totally at the mercy of the government. Not at all good for them.
So they must decide what government will demand less of them in the way of concessions. In my mind their best bet is to see what they can negotiate with Liberman. It may be the best deal they are going to get. If they come to terms with Liberman, he and Netanyahu will will cut a deal for his participation.
If they refuse such a deal they will then have to see what deal they can get from Gantz. How can it be better than Liberman’s deal. If Gantz wants to offer them a better deal, Liberman will no join the government. Both UTJ and Shas will have to be appeased. If one of them says no then Gantz has to bring the Joint list into the government. A big no no for Israel. Lapid and his faction will not agree to a better deal than what liberman offered.
Finally, any deal Liberman offers can be sweetened with oodles of money.
If they accept Liberman’s offer then this will garner more support for Likud in future elections because it will no longer be defending the religious. With this issue out of the way more Israelis will support Likud.
If B&W want to be in the goverment instead of Liberman, they will have to drop their opposition to Netanyahu and the secular/religious status quo.
So will the Hareidi bend to Liberman or will B&W bend to Netanyahu?
The Haredim could sink the ship and let in the Trojan horse of Fatah and Hamas as they did in the Disengagement in Gaza. I don’t trust them nor Lieberman.
The current situation in Israel reminds me of what the great writer said about his fellow Irishman, and their inability or unwillingness to unite against the English oppressors: “Remove me from this land of slaves?where all are fools and all are knaves.” Swift loved his native Irland and her people. But he knew their weaknesses only too well. He also wrote to them, “Shall we be like the Jews, who continued to divide into factions and murder each other even when the enemy {the Romans} were at the gates?” Unfortunately, what Swift wrote of the ancient Jews remains true of our people today. There is so much continuity in Jewish history.
Jerusalem fell in 70 C.E. and it looks like it will fall again in the early 21st century. That’s how little we have changed. Back in our Holy Land, we recapitulate all the mistakes and sins which got us expelled from it 2,000 years ago.
Former MK Dov Lipman wrote the following election update and analysis>
@ Bruce Friedman:
Opposition in this case means not in the governing coalition.
I’m not clear on who they identify as the “opposition” If they join the “opposition” what do they expect will happen to their minimum threshold demands
IF and that is a BIG IF that UTJ & Shas would agree to secularize the country and agree to the very limited draft law will Liberman agree to sit with Bibi as PM? Or is this if the whole Block of Likud/UTJ/Shas/Yamina were to join with Blue/White in a Unity Government?
I do not think Blue/White can agree to sit with the whole block because they would get out voted and have no control of the government even as the largest party.
So Assuming the Haredi agree to the conditions of Liberman (which Is FAR from assured) this would not be a unity government so Liberman would be reneging on that pledge.
I actually do not believe the Haredi would agree to all these demands because their public and rabbis would fry them in hot olive oil alive.