By Ted Belman
Over the weekend, Abbas Propose[d] Canceling Oslo Accords. He sees the accords as imposing too many controls over the PA. The Accords provide what the PA and Israel can and cannot do, like a constitution.
Israel for its part prefers the Accords to remain in place because they favour Israel and mandate negotiations. Nevertheless the willingness of the Israelis to abrogate Oslo is growing because it restricts them from annexing Area C or more and the PA consistently violates them.
Now , legally no one has the right to cancel the accords unless they can attribute fundamental breach to the other. But regardless, if the PA would do it they would have a better chance of world support than Israel except for one thing. The US is demanding negotiations and wouldn’t let the accords be formally set aside because it would undermine negotiations and bring in an era of instability and chaos.
Presently the strategy of the PA, with the active support of the EU countries and even the US, is to accept the Accords in name only while violating them everyday with their incitement and theft of state land in Area C.
Regavim is fighting a daily battle to prevent this theft by, inter alia, petitioning the Supreme Court. It is doing the job the GOI is turning its back on.
It is my understanding that a claim of changed circumstances can allow cancellation of treaties or agreements.CuriousAmerican Said:
How can a border be changed that does not exist and is a subject to be negotiated?
CuriousAmerican Said:
technically speaking abbas has already voided oslo by just seeking recognition. A unilateral act as opposed to bilateral. Pleaase re read Oslo.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Why do you keep chatting obvious rubbish! I often disagree with you and never invoke biblical arguments as bases. Some do and that is their prerogative. I believe you have invoked biblicisms? I think you are frustrated with facts that cancel your opinions.
CuriousAmerican Said:
I do not agree with your conclusion but you seem to infer that “fooling” ones enemies is not a reasonable tactic. This is odd as swindling and fooling the jews appears to continue as an acceptable international pastime.
CuriousAmerican Said:
I agree, as you have probably already observed. It is time that the “firestorm” which is always surrounding Israel is visited upon its enemies, both direct and indirect.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Yidvocate spoke of the PA as a creature of Oslo The PA was created from returning PLO and fatah under Oslo accords. If Oslo is dead they should be returned to Tunisia,lebanon from where they were evacuated to Tunisia, gaza the current de facto pal state, or any other convenient repository. There is no legal justification for their remining if oslo is dead. Hallelujah, it is easier for Israel to bomb a PLO in foreign. This would be the first fhase of the population exchange which I have already elucidated to you. You know, the doable, moral, practical, with legal precedent, unilaterally executed completion of the exchange which was began when a world of hypocrites like yourself found it was convenient to allow the expelling of jews from arab nations and turn a blind eye. Where is your outrage at this continuing evil? Those like yourself always justify screwing the Jews but balk when the Jews seek quid pro quo. The unilateral logistical completion of the population exchange is justified by precedent of those like you.CuriousAmerican Said:
What about the ethnic clenaisng of the Jews: that is the only issue of importance that jews should discuss. I have proposed a legally precedented population exchange that would render the Jewish ethnic cleansing as properly addressed. Hypocrites like you always loiter about forums like this
to proselytize double standards so that Jews remain in slumber. There is no reason for discussion of arab interests in place of jewish interests. This is the agenda of the usual suspects. CuriousAmerican Said:
Exactly what i have been saying. However, the neatest way is transfer across the border of any or all of the 3 currently hostile enemies who were also participants in the wars that resulted in expelling jews from arab nations. This is neatest because it can be done unilaterally,requiring no agreements, is logistically doable and resolves all the issues including the jewish refugee issue. Try to imagine it after the fact and you will begin to see its efficacy to all.
CuriousAmerican Said:
I do not prefer blood, but the enemy does: jewish blood. There is no reason for blood unless the enemies choose it. How many jews died in the expelling from arab lands? How many died in the forced expelling of Jews from gaza? Buying them out is a great idea and should be done with all that UN, international and arab money which now finances terror against the jews and others. It appears though that you would prefer that the jews expend their resources so as to enable the arabs, eu and UN to keep financing terror against the Jews. If those entities took a constructive role then all that you advise can be done by them after the arabs have reached a destination outside of Israel. They can then decide if it is better to keep expending money on those camps towards terror or seek to resettle the transfers constructively. If they choose positive resettlement then an economic boom will come to the 3 entities and the transferred arabs. If they choose to keep financing those transfers towards terror then those transfers will ultimately turn on them and gobble them up. IN any case it will cease to be a problem for Israel other than military and Israel would, in that circumstance, be able to devote increased resources and energy towards the military. Have some vision, curio!
@ CuriousAmerican:
The important thing is that they don’t belong in Israel.
How to accomplish this, depends on the circumstances.
Well, that would be logical.
OSLO is a nightmare.
But what are you going to do with the 2,000,000 Arabs?
That is the next issue.
If you recommended ethnic cleansing (or if you prefer the antiseptic term: involuntary relocation) then you had better be prepared for that war.
Be prepared to have the world outright condemn you. Forget anymore Holocaust reparations.
There is NO neat way out of this.
I recommend buying them out with substantial money; but the temper of this board seems to prefer blood.
The accords do not forbid settlements by name – BUT THEY DO FORBID UNILATERAL ACTIONS WHICH WILL CHANGE THE FINAL OUTCOME!
It has already been stated that any final outcome must incorporate the settlements … HENCE, the settlements have unilaterally changed the final outcome, if only by changing the border. Therefore, like it or not, Israel is in breach of OSLO.
Neither side obeys it.
Israel favors Oslo because it has the appearance of negotiation, while it maintain an Israeli hegemony. This is NO longer fooling anyone.
Even the PA is little more than a lackey police force which does the minor policing that Israel would otherwise have to do. It is not even that, since it is totally corrupt.
This is not criticism of Israel. This is observation.
The PA cannot issue a birth certificate without Israel’s approval. It has only appearance, NOT power.
But this is now well known.
Abbas is an idiot! Rather than going to the UN to ask for recognition, and voiding Oslo, and relieving Israel of culpability for OSLO’s demise, he should go to the UN and ask for a full General Assembly and Security Council declaration that Israel – by virtue of its UNILATERAL actions – has already breached OSLO.
This would place the blame on Israel – which would cause a panic in Jerusalem and Washington both. The US would have to veto, but Abbas would have made his point.
But the Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
But the purpose of this website is to declare a Biblical claim to the Land.
If that be the case, then Israel should stop the pretense, void Oslo, and brace for the firestorm.
Israel is waiting for the moment when it can claim innocence or victimhood and a pretense to voiding an already violated – by both sides – OSLO. Abbas may given them the excuse. He is an idiot!
But don’t count on Abbas’s idiocy. He can be a fox at times. He is not a total fool.
If you want the land take it, and brace for the firestorm.
Also come up with plans to deal with 2,000,000 more Arabs annexed to Israel.
Canceling the Oslo Accords would also have the effect of canceling the PA as the PA is a creation of the Accords. This would leave the Arabs who stole our moniker of “Palestinian” without any status at all which I would think is certainly preferable to the status and legitimacy they acquired under the Accords.
The reasons why the GOI will not proceed to annex all of Areas B and C, even if a majority of Israelis demand it, are too obvious to enumerate.
For the GOI to do that and flout the will of the U.S., the West and the Middle East, Israel would have to be faced with and defeat an immediate game changing existential threat such as another open all out war with the Mid East Arabs/Iran in which the Palestinians joined in. If Israel won such war, the Palestinians could and would be forced out of the area, if they did not leave on their own accord.
If Israel lost, it would be game over.