By Ted Belman
Keep your eye on this. Ban Ki Moon calls for end to ‘occupation’, settlements
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Speaking at a conference on democracy in the Arab world in Beirut, Ban said that “the Israeli occupation of Arab and Palestinian territories” and “violence against civilians” must end.
“Settlements, new and old, are illegal. They work against the emergence of a viable Palestinian state,” the UN chief stated.
Ban added: “A two-state solution is long overdue. The status quo offers only the guarantee of future conflict.”
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The Palestinians are considering ending the talks with Israel in Jordan and searching for other alternatives, such as asking the UN to demand an end to construction in the settlements, the London-based Al-Hayat newspaper reported Sunday.
What will Obama do?
Thank you for your response, Yamit (twice, no less)
I don’t think I was being “dumb” by looking these things up. The “anti-labor” note was listed as one of the defining characteristics of Adelson. The other three were that he was a multibillionaire, made his money through casinos, and was extremely fond of litigation. Speaking of being “dumb”, I think it would be stupid to vote for someone who was, essentially, in the pocket of one man. In Newt’s case, it’s two men — He is also owned by Fannie Mae.
If you have a more complete list, do post away! To my knowledge, Paul is supported primarily by small individual contributions (as in, for instance, servicemen). As for Ron Paul’s support in the military, more info is here:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/soldiers-choice/
American servicemen support Paul ten times as much as they support Romney, and a hundred times as much as they support draft-evader Gingrich. And those are just ACTIVE servicemen. I don’t have any doubts that the largely homeless, unemployed EX-servicemen overwhelmingly support Paul.
I know where your sentiments lie, Yamit, and they are not with ordinary Americans. All that said, neither of us will get the candidate of our choosing. No matter whom we vote for, we will get Goldman Sachs.
Newt Gingrich:
Sheldon Adelson, Las Vegas billionaire 5,000,000
Duh, what businessman isn’t especially those who employ tens of thousands and are multibillionaires? This was a very stupid comment by you!
Adelson is a strong supporter of Israel, the principle money backer of BB. He owns Israel Hayom
Your data for ron paul seem both incomplete or bogus. one or two adds in any of the primaries cost many times the amts listed for Paul.
Newt Gingrich:
Sheldon Adelson, Las Vegas billionaire 5,000,000
Duh, what businessman isn’t especially those who employ tens of thousands and are multibillionaires? This was a very stupid comment by you!
Adelson is a strong supporter of Israel, the principle money backer of BB. He owns Israel Hayom
NATO is a Synonym for the USA. America calls the shots, pays the bills and does the brunt of the fighting. It has become useful as an end run around a UNSC veto, and a fig leaf for American aggression by placing the onus on NATO and deny-ability for the American administration and military..
He’s hooked on and influenced by: Robert A. Heinlein (Stranger in a Strange Land, The Number of the Beast) and Polish military barbarians, Marvel Comics.
His language is reflective of the above. He says it best in Medieval Polish.
Il y a….Moi!!!
We give Russia and China exclusive rights to our gas and oil, throw out the Americans, pay the penalties and secure vetoes in the UN.
We establish joint ventures in military systems and platforms development and manufacture with Russia, China, India, S.Korea and say Italy.
With the economic difficulties the EU has assuming and it’s a big assumption that the EU will not collapse in the next year or two, I don’t think they would want to lose their exports to Israel.
Israeli companies are very entrenched in the Eastern European Block and that lends to Israel a degree of political clout in those countries.
Can you imagine the US Senate approving sanction resolutions in the UNSC against Israel especially the chapter 7 version?
Have sanctions worked against any country in the last 30 years? Not Cuba, not Iraq, Not IRAN.
No Vinnie if you look at our options and real-politik, I think Israel is in a position of being sanctions proof, If and it’s a big IF, the government of Israel plays our strong hand and not capitulate as it has been doing since June of 67.
I think I have checkmated all of your objections and rationalizations.
Why can’t you say it in plain language?
If you want to be perfectly candid- nobody here has all the answers- we are just ‘blowin in the wind.’
You can gauge the candidates’ priorities, by where their money comes from:
Barack Obama:
U of California $1,649,000
Goldman Sachs 1,013,000
Harvard U 878,000
Microsoft Corp 852,000
Google Inc 815,000
JP Morgan Chase & Co 809,000
Citigroup Inc 737,000
Time Warner 625,000
Sidley Austin LLP 600,000
Stanford U 596,000
National Amusements Inc 564,000
WilmerHale LLP 551,000
Columbia U 548,000
Skadden, Arps et al 544,000
UBS AG 533,000
IBM Corp 532,000
General Electric 530,000
US Government 513,000
Morgan Stanley 512,000
Latham & Watkins 503,000
(Big Government and Big Banking, anyone?)
Mitt Romney:
Goldman Sachs 367,000
Credit Suisse Group 204,000
Morgan Stanley 200,000
HIG Capital 186,000
Barclays 158,000
Kirkland & Ellis 132,000
Bank of America 126,000
Price Waterhouse Coopers 118,000
EMC Corp 117,000
JP Morgan Chase & Co 112,000
(Big Banking; but he’s just their backup candidate)
Rick Santorum
AT&T 99,000
Altria 97,000
Bank of America <92,000
PNC <88,000
JP Morgan Chase <76,000
Verizon <75,000
Wells Fargo <73,000
Bank of NY Mellon <69,000
(looks like a mini-Romney)
Ron Paul:
US Army 25,000
US Air Force 23,000
US Navy 17,000
Mason Capital Magement 14,000
Microsoft Corp 14,000
(Odd, for someone who's slandered as being "UnAmerican")
Newt Gingrich:
Rock-Tenn Co 28,000
small donors
"Winning Our Future" Gingrich PAC:
Sheldon Adelson, Las Vegas billionaire 5,000,000
(Adelson is extremely anti-labor)
I would say the big bankers own the 2012 election. (Has our country been mortgaged?) Israeli interests are not conspicuous among the donors.
Shalom Ted,
I must have used the wrong “un” definition and my comment to Vinnie got routed into somewhere.
Let me know if you have seen it. 🙂
It reminds me of the MIDNIGHT COWBOY movie song… two lines.
“There has been a lot of compromising
on the way of my demising” He sang.
Israel’s trek, (another letter would also fit the bill), within that sewer is disgusting.
Being there resulted from an beilin, peres, Aliel styled Foreign service. The beaten wife syndrome settled in.
I had for several years the doubious privilege to be in close contact with a certain Israeli Consul to Houston. He used my connections in Albuquerque and other locations. I was invited 5 times by the Ch. 11 TV, CBN station for the CBN syndicated Club round table, (got the tapes).
That Consul dug a ditch crawling and licking shoes and lesser graded locations while “representing” Israel. Despicable.
I well understood the origin of such “diplomatic” disaster.
For all I care the bestial entities at the “un” can sit the bodies of every monster ever around in their halls. They “sit” Hezbollah, Hamas, the Borthehood, Taliban and many others. They already have many in there including but not limmited to Iran, Syria, etc.
And they had Pinochet, the Juntas, the Cambodian beasts, Beria, Stalin…
I know the sing song Vinnie, that is what it is in the real…. whatever.
Israel is self poisoned by weaklings unable to internalize the terminal damage against us, done by compromising into that filth.
The Nobel prize chase here is grotesque. Anything to “sitted” or to be “recognized” by monstrous beasts.
Israel must leave the so called “un”.
Bill Narvey says:
“In other words Mickey, you have no answers.”
Those are your words, Bill.
If you cannot understand my answers I could try another language for you.
Arabic?
You remembered. 🙂
He played a great game as did the rest of the team. He is improving. I don’t like one dimensional quarterbacks where either his front line protects him or not. Rogers had an off day but I prefer his style of play he can make something out of nothing and win games. Young QB at SF is a comer.
3 problems,
foreign policy is not a burning issue in this election cycle.
I don’t agree with their opinions and solutions re: Israel.
Those I might agree with I don’t trust or believe them.
In elections they will say whatever they think is to their political advantage.
I’m sure you are a reliable report on this, but remember what happened in Yugoslavia. Try to tell the Serbs that the US isn’t capable of finding themselves on the wrong side of things. We continue to support militarily the ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Kosovo. We continue to man Camp Bondsteel, North Carolina is the source of the next rotation out of there. It is NATO that poses the real threat to Israel. It was NATO that bombed the Serbs into submitting to Muslims in Yugoslavia and it is NATO that would do the job in Israel. The US would just be setting things up. It remains to explain what the future of all these troops on the ground in Israel are. If “Austere Challenge” is really just postponed, then they are going to be sitting around for at least three months. 9,000 troops is a huge number of people for a small country like Israel. I have heard that this deployment was a long time coming and I do seem to remember some discussion about the prospect a long time back. The site for deployment is a microwave facility, an early detection system, I guess.
Bring back the draft!!!
Volunteer armies suck!!!Most Americans don’t give a shit about them and the overall levels of the average GI is awfully low. The draft raised the level of our fighting men and many brought with them into service vital skills.
It’s Narvey who raises questions.
It’s Narvey who ejaculates fear.
It’s Narvey who falls back of the Ghetto Jewish canards of appeasement of… ‘don’t let the gentiles get too upset with the Jews,’
It’s a play it safe Narvey, don’t rock their boat Narvey.
Rational at all times Narvey….
In the final analysis Narvey it’s you who have no answers. We have answers, but you reject them. That’s why I asked you for examples.. Still waiting.. 😛
I was in US Army until a year and a half ago The personnel who do the fighting,were typically white Southerners or other low income whites and some hispanics with blacks predominantly in support units. Some fighting men spent brief periods in Israel. They had the utmost respect for the IDF and were more sympathetic and understanding of Israel’s situation than anyone in the State Department. That is because, they experienced living in the Middle East and dealing with the uncivilized, insane Muslim supremacists. They saw the Israelis as similar to themselves except the Israelis couldn’t get on a plane just “go home” i.e. away from these backwards, incredibly duplicitous, violent haters of anyone who didn’t follow Islam. When it came to their opinion of the combat capability of the IDF, they were extremely impressed. I mention this because I agree having US troops in Israel is not good for Israel. However, the US army would be against treating Israel as an enemy both because they understand Israelis are living in a region where their neighbors are barbarians still in the middle ages trying to kill them, and because they don’t want to die or suffer terrible injuries which they know is much more likely fighting against the IDF than any other opponent since WW II.
In other words Mickey, you have no answers.
Vinnie : I recommend a great book dealing with the US and Britain’s hostility to Israel and before 48 Jews in general by John Loftus “The Secret War Against the Jews, How Western Espionage Betrayed the Jewish People”. Loftus a former prosecutor in the US Justice Department’s Nazi-Hunting unit, had access to thousands of previous top secret documents, and due to his insider status interviewed hundreds of former and current spies, and as stated on the back cover show how “While on the surface these 2 countries (US ,UK) and others profess to be ardent allies of Israel, they work, in fact, through their intelligence services to betray Israel’s secrets to the Arabs. Their motive: oil and international profits..” Loftus account of the US resupplying Israel, gives all the credit to a non Jew, Alexander Haig and portrays the arch capo/traitor Kissinger as ,partly due to stupidity, assisting Egypt and Syria almost win the war. Loftus portrays Nixon as too preoccupied with Watergate ,and thus Kissinger was practically alone in making US Foreign Policy. Kissinger who obviously knew nothing about combat compared to Haig, wanted Israel to get ” a bloody nose” but was close to helping the Arabs defeat Israel. Haig, without Kissinger knowing, called the Commander at Fort Benning GA, which was the site for training in the use of the anti-tank TOW missiles, and ordered immediate shipments of TOW missiles and arranged for Israeli officers to immediately fly directly to Fort Benning to receive instruction on the US of TOWs. He also was immediately on the phone ordering immediate ships of others weapons ,ammunition, etc directly to Israel. Haig knew Israel needed immediate resupply and implemented it. Loftus also explains very plausibly , that the USS Liberty was , unbeknownst to the sailors and commanders on board, was relaying information on Israeli troop deployments which the State Department immediately relayed to the Syrians and Egyptians through M15 British (Island Nazi)intelligence. LBJ was afraid his masters in Saudi Arabia would blame the US for the debacle the Arabs were suffering, although almost all Israeli weapons were supplied either by the French or were older versions of British and US tanks purchased through third parties. It is ironic that the President most beloved by American Jews FDR, as revealed by a non Jew David Wineman, did absolutely nothing to save any Jews during the holocaust when he had a number of opportunities to do so. Loftus adds info I was not aware of. The Assistant Secretary of State , a worm named Breckinridge Long who went far out of his way to obstruct the entry of Jews with valid visas into the US, was doing it ,if not by order of FDR , definitely with FDR’s full knowledge and approval. While there are daily reminders of the mistreatment by white Americans of other groups, the American Jewish community has gone to great lengths to hide how Jews ,unless they could “pass” as non Jews, received equally poor treatment including lynchings.I could write a book on the instances of outrageous discrimination and abuse of Jews by the US government , all the top corporations and the WASP elites prior to World War II. Some of them are mind boggling such a Jewish American who was not accepted at any US medical school, later won a Nobel prize for medicine. A movie Cinderalla Man actually gives an idea of the terrible situation Jews faced up to 1945. James Braddock went in one year from being on welfare and being unable to box due to injuries to become world heavyweight champion. He had to defeat 5 or 6 fighters to win the title in that one year. I did some research and 4 of the fights were against extremely talented tough opponents. It turned out all 4 were Jewish. Because no major US corporation (unless it RCA or other Jewish created companies) would hire Jews no matter how brilliant they were. Therefore, there were many Jews who had to make their living in boxing, which definitely means suffering brain damages in every fight and in training.
Probably but unlikely unless if the local forces are into the plan.
Apparently they are slowly using their return tickets…
OK, here’s why it would be a bad move, IMHO, for Israel to unilaterally quit the UN.
For starters, guess who would take Israel’s vacated seat? The PA, of course.
We want to delegitimze the PA, not add to their political/diplomatic prestige or credibility.
The Israel basher crowd would have a field day. Israel’s departure from the UN would be spun by their many allies in the petrodollar prostitute media as “confirmation” of their thesis that Israel is a pariah state that can’t exist amicably aside the rest of the world.
Up to now, I can hear many of you on this forum saying, “So what?”. Here’s “what”:
The above will have very concrete policy implications. Up to now, all UNSCRs passed concerning Israel were of the Chapter 6 variety, which means that they were not legally binding, amounting to mere “suggestions”. But especially with someone like Neville Carter Hussein Obama as president – whom I expect will get a second term thanks to a third-party run by Ron Paul, with that express purpose – in the wake of an Israeli departure from the UN, we should fully expect that Chapter 7 UNSCRs will be passed against Israel. These are the legally binding variety. These are used to authorize the use of force.
I don’t expect some kind of UN-sanctioned invasion of Israel. No one is that stupid. But no one had to invade Rhodesia, or Afrikaaner led S. Africa, either. Instead, there will be legally binding, hard international economic sanctions, trade embargoes, and so on, applied to Israel, so as to strangle her politically and economically, until she submits to the will of the UN and concede to the PA in the form of a bi-national state, allowing unrestricted right of return, etc.
No matter how morally bankrupt a cesspool the UN may be, they could make Israel absolutely miserable in an economic sense. Yes, as Yamit points out, Israel could probably trade “under the table” with a lot of people, and perhaps – PERHAPS – weather such a storm. If Israel left the UN today, we’d be talking about at least a five-year storm. It may be even longer than that. Looking at the phenomenon of Ron Paul, it is clear to this observer that the bad guys are making a play at co-opting both major parties here into their “dump Israel” program. I don’t know if they’ll succeed, but they might.
The U.S., despite her many problems and weaknesses, still has singularly decisive influence in the UN. This represents the most powerful political/diplomatic – and indirectly, economic – facet of historical leverage that the U.S. has had over Israel. Traditionally, to the extent that the U.S. has behaved as an “ally” of Israel in any meaningful way, it has been in the manner of watching Israel’s back in the UN. Obama is the first US president, with the partial exception of Carter, to put this role into question. If Israel leaves the UN on her own, you can kiss this goodbye.
I’ve read recently that at least 20% of Israel’s exports go to the EU. They’d be the very first to impose sanctions. Imagine the effect that would have on Isreal’s economy.
Yes, it is the economy, stupid. And the fallout from a unilateral Israeli departure from the UN would have devastating effects upon Israel’s.
As to the importance of Israel to the U.S. in the context of the current election cycle, that is a complicated matter. Most Americans favor Israel vis-a-vis the Palestinians or other Arabs, but this is not an issue that is high on their list of concerns. Americans are very isolationist right now, and are very tired of “foreign entanglements”. This mitigates against Israel being high on the radar of American voters. On the other hand, many Americans are increasingly aware of the threat posed by Islamist inspired terrorism, and rightly perceive Israel as a key ally in this war. However, petrodollar pimp dominance of much of the media and academia, as well as official D.C., tend to make it very difficult for this point of view to see the light of day, and become politically relevant.
As a side note, I’d more than agree with Laura that Israel is a VERY important issue in this election cycle, even beyond the GOP, though it is not talked about much. Leaving aside popular perceptions and attitudes one way or the other on the street, at the elite level, I have no doubt that a virtual elite-level political “civil war” is now being fought over this issue. Obama is going very much out of his way to “appear” pro-Israel with the election in mind, as far as he can stand, to defend himself politically on that quadrant. Ron Paul is as much an Islamist stooge as Obama; anyone who would get on national TV, as Paul did on the Letterman program, and blurt out that Michelle Bachmann “sure hates Muslims”, is obviously in their pocket. Why else would he make such an outrageous statement? It is EXACTLY the kind of thing the Musloids always say (“Why do you hate us?” blah blah blah). I am predicting now that Ron Paul will definitely make a third party run, in order to deliberately foil the Republican nominee, and ensure a second term for Obama, over the issue of Israel. I’d say that makes Israel a pretty significant issue here.
The bad guys installed their stooge, Obama, with the singular purpose of screwing Israel. That is plainly obvious from his performance otherwise as president. Note how on just about every other issue, Obama is willing to compromise – e.g., health care, the Bush tax cuts – but on Israel, he NEVER retreats from his concrete policy positions. It is clear as day that this, forcing Israel to capitulate to the thugs of the PA in order to appease Arab-Moslem sensibilities – was and is his #1 priority.
But finding someone who’d be an Islamist sympathizing stooge who’d put the screws to Israel like no one before him, who could ALSO competently lead the U.S. in a convincing way on domestic issues and other foreign affairs, that is a tall order!! All the same, he has failed to make as much progress as they’d hoped in terms of screwing over Israel, so to “finish the job”, he needs a second term.
Unlike in much of Europe, the bad guys have not completely coopted both major competing political parties here in the U.S. A politically credible, electable Israel-bashing stooge was not readily available on the Republican side. The best they can do over there is a return to the pre-Obama Bush #43-style “status quo” with someone like Romney. But that is not enough. Romney may also lean on Israel like Bush did, but he’ll at least sell Israel new fighter planes – that are actually available, unlike the F-35 – and likey back Israel up in the UN. These are pretty much the minimum things Israel needs from the U.S. in order to maintain a status of relative invulnerability.
The bad guys see Israel’s rising relative military and economic strength, and I get the sense that from their point of view they are running out of time and need to carry out a “full court press” against Israel. Ron Paul was the closest thing they had to what they want on the Republican side, but he’s not electable on his own. Obama, in a two-way race, also probably cannot win. SO, the next best thing: Run a “foil” who will ensure the re-election of someone who otherwise could not be re-elected, just to pursue that line of attack against Israel. Unless something happens to REALLY discredit Paul so that he gets maybe one or two percent of the vote, rather than the ten percent I’d expect he’ll get, it seems like their plan here is going to work.
Thus, for the time being, conditions are not looking good for the much touted “special relationship” between the U.S. and Israel, which was never as special as it was made out to be, at least not in a positive sense. Though I don’t agree with walking out of the UN for tactical reasons, I tend to agree more and more with Yamit and others in this forum that Israel is going to have to really look beyond the U.S-Israeli relationship, and look beyond counting on the U.S. for anything. There are very serious practical concerns, however, as to how certain complications from such a “divorce” might be worked out: For example, what about spare parts for the overwhelmingly U.S-based Israeli Air Force? Where will new fighter aircraft come from that can be integrated into the existing force structure, as the existing fleet becomes unservicable? Given the degree to which Israel has to depend on her air force for her defense, these are not small issues.
Back to the original topic, make no mistake that I hold the UN in the greatest contempt. I’d hope that the U.S., along with other major first-world democracies, would ultimately quit the UN, and if/when that occurs, that would be the time for Israel to also walk out. It won’t happen anytime soon, however.
Quitting the UN would be a reasonable thing to do. Nobody would blame Israel for doing such a thing. But the UN is not a golf club. There is a lot of important things to observe in UN participation that Israel needs to keep an eye on. And Israel does have its friends in the world and Israel is not the only one being unjustly persecuted. There are other weaker nations suffering more at the hands of the bullies and sociopaths running the UN.
We are hearing from the UN at precisely the same time that the US has placed 9,000 US troops inside of Israel. Now, the “deployment” that was supposed to be a part of this displacement is “postponed”. What are these troops supposed to be doing there until then? Maybe the whole “Austere Challenge” was a fake move to get troops inside of Israel as a step towards occupying it in an advanced NATO move to enforce a Palestinian state.
Completely correct Yamit.
There is abolutely nothing for us to do in that pestilent hole, the nesting burrow of the worse criminals ever seen. The UN is an enemy of us as a body and we must remove ourselves from that miasma. All UN personnel must be ejected. At best they roam around spying and teach hatred against us.
V,
Needless to say that I am very concerned with the gyrations of don Netanyahu. Besides he keeps horrible company.
I cannot discern a plan or policy. Too many boiler plate statements and no backbone to speak of.
Basically untrustworthy to the citizens and the contrary to foreign pressure centers.
If that is the best we have got in critical times, we are in deep doo.
I feel so little respect for the “every new law rejecting” fellow that I could believe that he betrayed us all already.
Bill Narvey Says:
“None of you have explained what advantage Israel would gain by ending its membership in the U.N.?”
Well, Bill, how about national pride and self respect for a beginning.
Or, the UN would no longer be able to exercise any power or jurisdiction over a non member.
And, there is always the remote possibility that other UN members might follow and decamp from the UN’s roster thus hastening its much needed demise.
Bill Narvey says:
“Have you considered that Israel’s already sorely disadvantaged position at the U.N. could worsen if she should withdraw from the U.N.?”
Think, Billy boy. If Israel is no longer a member of that Arab country club how it would no longer have a position therein, good bad or indifferent. Unlike today when it is at the bottom of the heap.
As for examples. There are none – yet. Israel could set an admirable example.
Shmuel,
I beg to differ in this instance.
I believe the exercise was cancelled because such “joint exercises” – which for some reason, under the Islamist stooge Obama, have been bigger than under any of his predecessors – are probably being correctly seen by Israeli leaders as a cover for U.S. spying on Israel. In this latest exercise, I’m sure the U.S. leadership intended to get a wealth of info on Israel’s intended order of battle in a strike on Iran, so they could better see if Israel is preparing for an actual strike in the foreseeable future, and from there, intercede to stop the same.
Remember, during the 1930s, Nazi Germany and Stalin’s USSR engaged in a lot of military exchanges, mostly just to spy on each other.
Great game! Perhaps you have finally come around about Eli?
I think Israel has been very much an issue in the GOP foreign policy debates.
Joe,
I’d agree with you in general but you leave out another exception, and that is Nixon. He hated liberal Jews (I’m not so fond of them myself), but I have it on good authority from people who were connected with members of that administration that Nixon actually respected and admired Israel. Consider the ’73 airlift…who else before or since would have done that? Even Truman wouldn’t openly come to Israel’s aid in ’48.
You also leave out Johnson, who, despite his many other faults, was also very pro-Israel.
Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon were the only presidents who could be considered, on balance, pro-Israel in my book. Nixon, in concrete policy terms, was probably the best. You can find flaws in all of their records, though, and NONE of them has ever treated Israel like a true, genuine ally at the same level as even, for example, South Korea.
One of your best Yamit.
The fixation with the US “alliance” is suicidal. While it is true that sectors of the USA remain viable, they are of course mainly interested on their own thin ice supported future.
As they used to pontificate, “bottom line” is that the US economy debt load to GDP is 102%. In other words the debt load is larger than the gross domestic product. The infrastructure is tumbling and the social support expenses growing wildly.
Basically, while we would love to see the US returning to its calling and potetial we need to gently pull out of the present administration’s mess.
We cannot under any circumstances waive vital interests on behalf of any other country. Umbrellas are of very little use against nuclear weapons.
wake up people there is no such thing as palastinen people those are nothing but muslim arabsthier goal is to destroy every one the infidel
I also have a comment in moderation. Ted likes to protect Narvey.
Your postulate breaks down here. Nobody wants Peace. If you were to ask each party what is their definition of PEACE, you will not get two similar answers. Look up the term peace in any dictionary and you will find a multiplicity of definitions.
When you hear anyone touting the concept of Peace I would you suggest you demand they define what they mean first before accepting prima facie, that they mean what you think they do.
Arabs as Muslims can never accept according to Islamic Law recognition of any sovereign non Muslim entity on lands once under Islamic domination and Law. Therefore we are in a religious conflict and not a conflict over narrow national recognition. It is not now or ever was Land for Peace. There can never be real peace with Islam but through strength keep them at bey.
Here we go with moderation again. I proof read my comment and there is nothing offensive unless you are a terrorist.
Please, I’ve seen a lot of garbage permitted that should have been trashed.
Please Ted, find a new moderator.
As a lawyer would you advise a battered wife to stay with her husband?
As a human being would you so advise?
I think you would so my ans will not resonate with you.
By turning it’s back on the UN Israel will say to the world that we refuse to be part of the anti-Israel clique of nations and that we still respect bilateral relations e may have with individual nations.
Israel does not view the constituted UN as a moral or legitimate authority whose resolutions and edicts will have not effect on our policy or actions. Only Israeli self interests will dictate them.
Who knows, other countries might follow Israels lead.
Israel could save tens of $ millions we donate to the UN and our mission. Retire hundreds of useless diplomats and put those public funds saved to much better use.
By placing sanctions on the UN here in Israel we send a message that they are no longer in our view a player in our affairs, we cede to them no authority in our domestic or national affairs.
I have always taken two positions.
We do not owe to the UN our existence, we owe them nothing.
Never stay where you are not welcome and don’t force ourselves where we are not welcome.
We don’t need the UN but they sure as hell seem to need us.
Considered and rejected! Meaning I can’t see any advantage to us for staying in and no disadvantage for leaving. If you do, state them with any examples to support your position.
Bottom line is the only peace the Arabs seek is a whole piece of Israel. Israel needs to take the high road and continue to build communities throughout all of the Holy Land and bulldoze where necessary.
It’s not up to the U.S. or any other country to dictate land to the Arabs or a group of Jordanians and mix bag of other Arabs who call themselves Palestinians.
The whole Arab world has enough land for the Palestinians to reside, that is if you desire to live under Islamic rule.
I don’t buy into the BS, the world having a concern for the Palestinians, rather anti-Semitism raring it’s ugly head.
The Israelis had to defend and protect her people and her rights to the Holy Land against great odds from the much larger Arab world and was successful. Are we so blind not to see the Hand of the Lord. It’s called divine intervention.
Remember the old add, “Don’t mess with mother nature”. The same holds true, “Don’t mess with G-d” it’s a no brainier.
If these so called leaders are so concerned, they should convince the Arab world to absorb the Palestinians and leave the Israelis alone.
They can begin by calling a halt to financial and military aid to the Arab world who support or engage in terrorism against Israel, especially the PA who are controlled by Hamas the proxy of Iran.
I’ve been trying to figure out what is so wrong with the dealings with the Arabs, and I think it is they refuse to make peace with Israel. It seems to me this must happen first before anything else. Why in high heaven should Israel proceed further when the Arabs plan to jump them in the future? To put it bluntly Arab Palestinians and many Muslims have a terrible reputation when it comes to dealing with nonMuslims. A really really terrible reputation.
Obama and Hillary should think this through. I bet neither of them could be suckered to take such a deal. What can the U.N. or E.U. do about this? Why aren’t they able to talk the Arabs into peace? Israel should not give up an inch of territory. I don’t care what Moon thinks or says. He has politicized himself and has been rendered useless.
I would like an explanation from the U.N. and E.U. on why they allowed Arabs to squeeze Christians out of the West Bank.
Of course, the world wants peace. Israel wants peace. Who is this leaving out?
Why should Israel end its U.N. membership?
None of you have explained what advantage Israel would gain by ending its membership in the U.N.?
Have you considered that Israel’s already sorely disadvantaged position at the U.N. could worsen if she should withdraw from the U.N.?
If you have considered these questions, I am interested in what answers you have come up with.
Yamit (Uncle Nahum) and Mickey you are both right on. In fact Yamit knows my position on the UN. It is nothing more than a cesspool of bad countries and so called leaders or gangsters.
We don’t need these same characters involved in any decisions concerning our nations.
Furthermore I find it revolting when other nations attempt to influence or dictate what if any part of Israel, the Holy Land the Israelis should occupy. As if they have the authority to do so. How ludicrous.
Listen G-d led the Jewish people back to the Holy Land, His authority is above all and trust me He did not abdicate this authority to anyone. Need I say more.
yamit82,
I couldn’t agree more.
On numerous occasions I have written that Israel should relinquish its membership in that less than hallowed club.
However, Israel seems to enjoy the abuse of repeatedly getting its face slapped and then turning the other cheek for yet another whack.
Should Israel quit the UN then anything the UN says, orders, cajoles, passes and demands will be tantamount to whistling Dixie on a jet runway.
They might even give up Israel as its primary target and concentrate on – who knows – Bali or Monaco or Lichtenstein.
Joe Hamilton is on the right track. To continue along that track, I would add that in the USA the Dept of State, the CIA and the FBI also seem to have tendancies to be anti-Israel and to some extent antisemitic. As an example, I give the exclusion of Jews from certain positions if they have a relative in Israel. Another example is the USA’s own Prisoner of Zion, Jonathan Pollard. Some time ago, I noticed that Collin Powell and Condoleesa Rice were reasonable with regard to Israel until they became Sect of State. But we must not forget that USA Jews are far more interested in enhancing their image as progressive and they have been cowed into rejecting concern for Israel lest they be considered as racists in not weeping for the Fakestinians and of having dual loyalty. But as well, we must consider the UN’ Secretary Generals. We had Goofy Anand who was more concerned with the Fakestinians than with the genocide in Rwanda and now we have Monkey Boon who should be neutral and the upholder of UN resolutions aligns himself with the “oppressed” “non-whites”. Civilised people should point out that racism is inexcusable even when practised by people of colour. Professional Jews must point out that there is a Jewish people but “Palestinians” are a vile political construct and that Jews who successfully defended themselves against mohammedans, whether jihadis, nationalists or land-hungry aggressors, have a right to compensation and the right to dictate peace terms rather than be dictated to by the defeated aggressors and their immoral, cynical, antisemitic supporters of which the Quartet members are just one grouping.
Let no one tell you otherwise, all heads chosen to lead the UN must pass American approval. No Secretary of the UN can reach such a position without American OK! W/out America there is no UN.
Israel gains nothing positive by remaining in that nest of vipers. Israel should take a moral and principled position by leaving that body. Declaring the UN and all official and unofficial organs and institutions persona non grata in Israel.
Israel must divest from America, holding on at all costs will end in our destruction.
It looks like Ban has just assured himself of a healthy retirement income. He is yet another M.O.C. – Member Of the Crowd or Muslim Obeying Cretin.
I never put much value on polls showing Israel is popular with Americans. While it is more pleasing to the ear to hear nice things said about Israel, I have always questioned the real value to Israel of such SOP. The Influence over congress and all Administrations by the Saudis far outweigh Israel advocates and the diminishing Jewish population and influence of American Jewry.
Nobody loves the Saudis, except presidents past and present and American financial, corporate, media and academic elites. While some 40% of American billionaires are said to be Jewish, most are assimilated un-Jews who have little if anything to do with Israel or any Jewish causes or concerns. I call that wasted power that only weakens American Jewry and is speeding the American Jewish demise.
Lat night I watched Giants and Packers game along with American advertising, which we don’t normally get here and all I can say after watching them was that I am embarrassed for Americans at the level of imbecility Americans have been reduced to by corporate America. From such a cultural downgrade I think it the height of stupidity for anyone in Israel to believe that we can rely on America if we ever find our selves in a time of dire need. It will not come from the overwhelming majority of Americans. In watching the political debates and concerns of Americans israel is missing from those debates and concerns. Why? Because for Americans Israel is a non issue.
Notice: American red lines: Blocking the Straits of Hormuz, Not Iran getting a bomb or threatening to wipe Israel off the map. Those are not red lines for America, concerns yes but not red lines prompting a military response.
The economy will not recover no matter who is elected and by election time or the beginning of 2013 America will be deep into a depression, so severe that the 1930’s will resemble a mild hiccup.
Israel? No, it’s the economy stupid and that truism crosses all political and ideological groups, religions and ethnicity’s.
The danger to Israel is not so much as being alone which we are, but the belief that we aren’t.
I am convinced tha Netanyahu has again collapsed and accetped a nuclear Iran and that is why the “exersise” was cancelled. Wobbly is his second name, not Iran’s.
What will he get in exchange? HIS NOBEL.
He only needs now to finish of the Jews in Judea and Samaria and da deal with the Arabs there is done. No need for UN dances.
TO continue a correction Schnozzetta told the Jews they better NOT defend themselves. After Ronnie B move actor Reagan saved the Fakestinian Mafia, his VP Bush 41 took over. The Bush family although I don’t know the details it is alleged and probably true were pro Nazi as was Joe Kennedy who told FDR not bother providing assistance to Britain. With the exception of JFK and Truman ,briefly, every president , due to big Oil and America’s elite’s hatred of Jews and has been on balance hostile to Israel. They would have been even more hostile but as Bush 41’s closest advisor James “Bad hair plugs” Baker pointed out when he said F–k the Jews they didn’t vote for us, Jews in the US could have influence on presidential elections.The US is on its’ way down especially when they elect a unqualified ,undersocialized racist bum who treated Netanyahu like the PM of a country at war with the US. Of course, the Jews in the US contributed too much to the US considering the treatment they received. Jewish scientists were overwhelmingly responsible for the atomic bomb which had it not been developed would resulted in maybe 500,000 dead Americans most of whom fathered families. The Jew haters in the US also forget they might still be confined to wheelchair defacating in their diapers if not for Jonas Salk, and I could go on and on of how the Jews have made tremendous conributions to the US and were rewarded with almost constant mistreatment
A more accurate headline would be “Trespassing Arab Muslim supremacist Nazis won’t allow the Jews of Israel to negotiate their own suicide”. Before the mutt hillbilly former KKK supporter Jimma Carter was President it was considered unthinkable that the US would recognize the Fakestinian baby murderers. Now because in large part due to the peace treaty with Egypt which cost Israel billions of dollars including giving up oil fields, the US has accelerated their assistance to the Muslims in erasing Israel and it’s Jews. They just sent the ugly greaser with the gigantic nose to warn them not to resist another holocaust. Leon Schnazetta sent by Louis Farrakahn’s buddy in the White House, told the Jews they better defend themselves and resist the Arabs’ plan to kill another six million Jews. It might make the Saudis angry. The US has NEVER treated Israel and before 1948 Jews like human beings. They obviously feel, because American Jews are such fools, there is no need to pretend to be an ally of Israel The rulers of the US: the Saudis , Big Oil and Wasp elite have given the US government orders to speed up the plan to sacrifice the Jews of Israel faster by putting them into a smaller and smaller ghetto , while they run interference as Iran puts the finishing touches on their nukes. The Fakestinian Nazis are so certain the US will accelerate the plan for another holocaust, that they don’t have even pretend they have any interest in anything other than exterminating the Jews. If Jews stop living in denial, and look at the treatment of Jews by almost every US president since their belongs FDR, who obstructed the entry of Jews into the US facing certain prior to and during WWII. , and looks at how each US president has treated the Jews , with a few brief exceptions , it is a record of an enemy not a sympathetic friend or ally. . Following Jimma the hillbilly, Ronnie Senile Reagan , just when Israel had Arafat cornered in Beirut and was ready to finish off the Fakestinian mafia, Mr Senility saved Arafat. Now we have a Black Muslim antisemite as President continuing to set Israel up by making sure they don’t defend themselves by attacking Iran. It could raise the price of oil and the rulers of the US consider Israel an obstruction to good relations with the Muslim Oil producers .
Probably nothing in a re-election year. If he gets back in I’ll be very worried, the shackles will come off and we might just see the real Obama. He might even say, by the way, I am really a muslim.
As a result,
The Palestinians are considering ending the talks with Israel in Jordan and searching for other alternatives, such as asking the UN to demand an end to construction in the settlements, the London-based Al-Hayat newspaper reported Sunday.
What will Obama do?
Support the Palies, of course. What else would you expect?